Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte

@Ecdysiast you're right. I hadn't seen that. Apologies.

@thinkfast
Its clear from your comment that you did not read the article I was referring to.

Here is the link again:
www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say

It takes two to ceasefire. Israel aren't the ones who broke the ceasefire.

I agree with you.

When your enemy's stated goal is the total annihilation of your people, what SHOULD your response to their aggression be?

I believe this was a terrible miscalculation by Hamas, aided and abetted by Iran.

Iran is very unhappy about the growing accord between Saudi and the US, so seek to destabilise the Middle East. They assumed the ME would rise up and overthrow Israel, but the local response has been muted, at best.

Many of the neighbours regard Palestinians as trouble, which is why none are taking them as refugees.

I've always believed that Netanyahu doesn't give a hoot about the hostages, and sees them secondary to his grand plan to wipe Gaza off the map. This news item just makes that all the more clear:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say

I do agree Israel has taken this too far. There is simply no humanity left. Almost half killed are kids and some hostages are babies.

When your child is physically hurt it’s painful for you to see right? Why the hell are you banging on about this cra*?

we all need to come together for safe release of hostages AND a ceasefire

do the bloody right thing

Absolutely this

No one is a winner

No one is morally right in this

Each side is murderous and criminal

Me too. Its utterly disgusting.

@Tigerteal What's right would be a ceasefire, but Israel still refuses one.

7th October was horrific. What is happening now in Palestine is horrific.

so many children are caught up on this, on both sides but especially Palestine.

why oh why do you people have no compassion for human life in your heart? I think about the babies and children being kept hostage and away from their families and I have seen terrifying videos of children’s legs blown off.

and all people want to do is show who is the ‘right one’ have you considered that no one is right anymore?

7th October was horrific. What is happening now in Palestine is horrific.

so many children are caught up on this, on both sides but especially Palestine.

why oh why do you people have no compassion for human life in your heart? I think about the babies and children being kept hostage and away from their families and I have seen terrifying videos of children’s legs blown off.

and all people want to do is show who is the ‘right one’ have you considered that no one is right anymore?

@orangehairbrush
"I've been in Israel and in the West Bank and I've unfortunately seen up front how Hamas operate."

Where have you been in the West Bank, and what did you learn there about how Hamas operate?

Irrespective of which side is in the right, I'd say the IDF - because if a place were lit up like Blackpool in winter and full of the 'enemy' and supporters, it would have made more sense strategically to chuck a bunch of missiles over and erase it from the face of the Earth, not wibble on about it being hypocritical/proof of lies on the internet.

Can't answer you question. I don't think Israeli have been announcing totally deaths regularly. You would have to count up deaths like that from reports of hits. Not many rockets get past the defence system considering how many have been fired by Hamas since 7th October.

Anyway this is all I know so far along those lines:

Israel's foreign ministry claims that Hamas terrorists in the Gaza Strip have fired over 9,500 rockets at Israeli territory since their attack on the Jewish state one month ago.

Since October 7, 1,400 people have been murdered in Israel, while 7,198 more have been wounded.

As of Tuesday evening, 342 people remain hospitalized, with 51 in serious condition.

Hamas is believed to be holding at least 239 people hostage in Gaza.Along with Israeli citizens, this figure includes 25 Thai nationals, 21 Argentinians, 18 Germans, 10 Americans, seven French, seven Russians, four Hungarians, three Poles, three Portuguese, two Brits, two Filipinos, two Romanians and two Tanzanians. In addition, the terror group is holding hostage individual nationals of Canada, Austria, Brazil, China, South Africa, Denmark, Ireland, Lithuania, Mexico, Nepal, the Netherlands, Serbia, Ukraine and Uruguay.

This post will be deleted no doubt. I have been trying to find the number of Israeli killed/ injured by Hamas' rockets since 07/10/23 but I can't. I am not being morbid, antisemitic or pro Hamas ( sick of having to state this). I just would like to know.

MN wasn't around then but I supported the ANC and the Sandinistas. And others. Massively more than I would ever support Hamas.

And there are a whole list of organisations whose AIMS I supported but not their METHODS.

What do you think about Nelson Mandela, a man who was called a terrorist by the then Prime Minister?

Memori is not a reliable source, and the video doesn't show anything anyway.

Did it really? There seems to be lots of people determined to get anything not pro Israel deleted ASAP.
But i dont understand how mn is falling for it.

There is no date and time stamp on the video footage and I have been unable to find any reporting on it in MSM. Apart from the link I included earlier in the thread I have only found one YouTube channel ( a one man band portraying themselves as a news channel) talking about it.

There has been no expert analysis of the footage and we are unable to see what is being shown on the screen.

Under the circumstances it would be unwise to accept the claims made by Gilan Erdan as fact without further verification.

Oh my...my post got deleted because I dared say that the crowd didn't look as though they have been living in a war zone? Wow.

You were brave to post this OP! :)

So many people are demanding that Israel calls a ceasefire but are glossing over the fact that every single day Hamas continues to blast rockets at Israel. The only reason there isn't widespread carnage in Israel is because they have a robust defence system. Perhaps some of the Hamas leaders (who according to the UN are worth in excess of $2 billion each) could think about getting their own so they could look after the people they say they care about so much.

But instead they continue to fire rockets, knowing there will be a huge response and that many innocent people will be in the direct firing line. But yet, Israel is 'the bad guy'.

I've been in Israel and in the West Bank and I've unfortunately seen up front how Hamas operate. To give them any credit, they have never tried to hide who they are. Their goal is the annihilation of the Jews. It's in their constitution and even last night on Sky News, one of their operatives said 'we won't stop until we have a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital'. Or in other words, as per their manifesto, 'till all the Jews are gone'. And if I had neighbours like that, I'd build a massive great wall too.

But still, Israel is the 'bad guy'.

Suspect many people on MN who have strong opinions are unlikely to have ever travelled to the area and their primary source of information is social media. The same people who wholeheartedly believe that people like Trump and Russia manipulated social media with bots, ads and fake news, cannot see that Hamas could possibly do the same.

Before bunking off to a safer place on MN (and ducking out of the inevitable whataboutery), yes, I do have 'skin in the game' as I've worked in this context and no, I do not defend Israel's actions all the time and yes my heart aches for anyone innocent suffering.

But those who continue with the narrative that Israel is the only bad guy, I'd say get on a plane and go and see for yourself (if you dare). But I bet you won't.

Another thread defending terrorists. Well done.

I'm about to go back through MN threads from the Afghanistan/Al-Qaeda war-era to see how many pro-terrorism ones I can find. It will be an interesting exercise.

I don’t believe anything that comes from Israel unless it’s verified by independent sources. Too many lies have already been found out.

IDF ceased bombing for the duration of the screening too, how thoughtful.