Illegal settlements

@ItsRainingTacos79 I actually really want to start a thread on a two state solution as I feel it's something many people want but there's not enough we know about it. For example proposed borders and how it would be implemented

Just having the discussion is definitely a starting point. Meaningful action will obviously take years, if not decades.

@Parkingt111 I imagine negotiations to define future borders will involve land swaps to minimise the number of settlements needing to be dismantled and Israel will ultimately keep much of the land it has illegally encroached upon.

Can someone explain to me please why out of the 700,000 settlements, the lawyer is saying that 200,000 need to be dismantled to be able to create a Palestinian state?
So will the rest remain? Will the remaining settlements come under Israel or Palestine?

And might even be a starting point for ultimate internationally agreed sanctions.

I know. The UK has no power to tell another country what to do. Just as Israel can’t tell the UK what to do. But the very fact that he’s coming out and staying it so clearly is helpful to anyone within Israel who might be trying to speak up clearly without being gaslighted and told that they’re mad or anti semitic.

It's interesting, but in reality all he did was 'consult' this lawyer (who no doubt Israel will brand an antisemite). The UK at best might 'advise' or 'call' for the dismantling of settlements, but they will never impose sanctions. Israel have made it very clear of late that the settlements are going to expand, rather than retract, regardless of international law.

I was so happy when Cameron was brought into this.

When he first came to power I thought he was the stereotypical toff riding on connections rather than merit. My views changed as I watched him give speeches on grey mornings in grey locations, always earnest and well prepared, always smartly dressed and groomed, no matter how dull the topic or how small the crowd. He took his post seriously and tried to do it well. I watched him grieve for his child and watched people laugh at him as he asked people to try to be kind to disadvantaged and out of control teens. He’s a thoroughly decent human being and I’m glad he’s involved in this.

This was an interesting read. Cameron discussing the issue of dismantling illegal settlements on his Israel visit.

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/17/two-state-solution-would-mean-relocating-200000-settlers-says-israeli-lawyer-who-has-david-camerons-ear

@feralunderclass
It really does, doesn’t it?

Thank you for sharing @stormy4319trevor . That charter sounds strikingly like Hamas'.

@usernameofnames Oh good, spaces went a bit funny, but you can read the properly typed version on Jewish virtual library. It's not long.

This is an interesting interview which offers insight into the views of some of the settlers. I would hope that it’s an extreme viewpoint! Although some of it reflects the thinking in the government in Israel today.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extreme-ambitions-of-west-bank-settlers

@stormy4319trevor thank you, great info.

@usernameofnames Netanuahu's Likud party is committed to the development of the settlements. It's in the founding charter 1977. Settlements are encouraged and protected by the military. The charter states that care should be taken not to dispossess anyone, but that does not seem to work in practice. Here's some relevant passages from the founding charter, Judea and Samaria refer to the West Bank:
The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.SettlementSettlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone.

They don’t just allow it - they facilitate it. They consider the West Bank disputed territory. Ultimately this Israeli government believe they have historical rights to the West Bank.

I've seen some truly awful videos of settler violence. I understand tons of it goes unpunished. And it's getting worse.

Why do the Israeli govt allow these people to get away with it?

This situation is so infuriating to watch, I can't imagine how the Palestinians are living it every single day. It's state sanctioned terrorism, plain and simple.

Ben-Gvir announced 10,000 assault rifles would be given to settlers and civil defence teams, 4,000 ready to be distributed and 6,000 more were on order.

That was months ago reported by the Times of Israel on the 10th Oct.

Yes I saw this
I can see why they would be concerned with the increase in settler violence
I think it was another one of Ben Gvir's policies so no suprise there

Everytime I hear about illegal settlers the same video always comes to mind. A zionist illegal settler called Jacob who took a Palestinians house.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeLWPPL7/

The US are holding up a sale of over 20,000 assault rifles to Israel which Israel says it needs for the police force. But the US are concerned the rifles will end up in the hands of settlers. They want reassurance from the government this will not be the case.
I think I know what the answer will be.

@Thereissomelight there has now been a joint statement from all the above regarding settler violence and illegal settlements

Here is a good piece about why America's words are meaningless:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/15/biden-extremist-jewish-settlers-travel-ban-loophole

If they're American citizens, the US border force can't stop them entering.

American citizens have been at the forefront of the rise of settler violence in the occupied territories, and the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their land, but as US passport holders they cannot be barred from their own country. Many of the estimated 60,000 Americans living in the West Bank outside of occupied East Jerusalem moved to settlements for the lifestyle and have little to do with the Palestinians on whose land they live.

Americans account for only about 15% of the total settler population in the West Bank and East Jerusalem but their influence outweighs their numbers.

Hirschhorn estimates that another 100,000 American settlers live in occupied East Jerusalem and the settlement blocs immediately around the city. They have been instrumental in the takeover of Arab homes through well-funded settler organisations.