Illegal settlements

What I don't understand is why supposedly intelligent and rational people keep pretending that there is some magical alternative around the corner that strategists are choosing to ignore?
What strategists? There have been plenty of strategists from outside Israel that have offered advice and their expertise on how to conduct this campaign without killing so many civilians but Israel have declined all such offers. Don't suggest there was no alternative to the killing of over 35,000 civilians in 4 months many of them children, denying humanitarian and bringing the area to the brink of famine because that is not intelligent or rational

Not a very erudite or constructive post IMO.

I understand peoples' revulsion at a bombing campaign/ground invasion in an area with a very dense population.

What I don't understand is why supposedly intelligent and rational people keep pretending that there is some magical alternative around the corner that strategists are choosing to ignore?

if the sale of illegal settlements is going at the time of the demo is going on then why no?
They’re not against Jewish but against of doing something illegal

If and i stress if (haven't read full reports) palestine properties are being flogged inside said synagogue premises, I would say a demo would be ok/understandable. A long time since i went to Sunday school but this rather reminds me of a bible episode.(Am now an atheist,world would be a better place without any religions)

And that makes it okay to harass people outside a Synagogue?

In contravention to both international and Israeli law, the settlers are gaining power. They are illegally building outposts that the government then legitimizes, and a new settlement is formed. It's in Israel's interest to encourage settlers, the more outposts/settlements (no matter how small) the more Palestinians are being enclaved. I'm sick of hearing about "settler violence", it's terrorism plain and simple.

Seen various reports of demos outside a synagogue in Canada. Apparently there is estate agent auctioning homes in this synagogue in West Bank so the people are protesting against it

Illegal Israeli Property Sales in Canada and US

https://twitter.com/faisalkutty/status/1764649916721426665

https://twitter.com/faisalkutty/status/1763212627038355562/mediaViewer

https://twitter.com/Byoussef/status/1764733972373004521

Just seen this … compares the situation of settlers if this happened anywhere else in the world

https://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1744125164462252289

Actually, some time before 7 October, the Israeli government declared law centres in Gaza City and in Ramallah (a city near Jerusalem on the West Bank) and other community organisations that support Palestinian people (including a women's organisation) as terrorist organisations.

Might be an idea to read Rory Stewart's new political autobiog.
And ponder why La Cameron is no longer an ever so unble MP.
And no longer an ever so umble MP for the constituents he pledged to serve with pleasure until death.

@SinnerBoy
Maybe. I don’t know all the details. He always struck me as more sincere than many of his colleagues and peers anyway.

I hope that any Palestinians in danger of losing their land are getting together all documents, deeds, land registries, school/medical records, birth certs proving places of birth, business accounts, photographs, invoices, insurance details etc and lodging them with lawyers - preferably experienced Palestinian lawyers who work internationally - hopefully such people exist and have taken an interest In their compatriots? And will be prepared to gather and store mass evidence in readiness to take group action to prove ownership of lands, businesses and homes and/or to seek compensation for loss and damage.

Thereissomelight · 18/12/2023 13:39

When he first came to power I thought he was the stereotypical toff riding on connections rather than merit.I watched him grieve for his child and watched people laugh at him as he asked people to try to be kind to disadvantaged and out of control teens. He’s a thoroughly decent human being and I’m glad he’s involved in this.

Hmm. The multimillionaire who took every penny possible for his disabled child, though he didn't need it.

Then removed that money for the poor proles who absolutely did need it and who have suffered awfully from the lack of it.

As you say,a thoroughly decent human being.

(Edited for format).

I hope the settlers won’t gain power and I hope that the international community will force them to retreat and return the land. But despite all the anger at the injustice I’m not seeing much movement in that so far. Quite the opposite as in the example @Parkingt111 has just given.

The thing is, I feel it’s a possibility that the settlers will become more powerful, not less. It’s a dangerous tipping point for Palestine. And history will quickly become erased so that the more moderate or decent Israelis will be genuinely convinced that the Palestinians were never there.

@Thereissomelight they have been trying to tell the world for years. It mostly just falls on deaf ears
Its only now because of the war it is getting some attention. But not enough for the Israeli government to do anything significant about it

I know. But if the government allows it, that’s what happens and will now happen more and more.

I hope every Palestinian who still has a home is documenting, photographing, videoing, getting testimony from neighbours, local teachers, lawyers, anyone possible. Otherwise their history of ownership and presence will be erased.

@Thereissomelight not all Isralis. Many of them are not happy with what the settlers do either, it's mostly the extremist ones who behave like this

It's the government who allows it and have allowed it for decades

Yes, they’ll be terrorists.

@Parkingt111
It’s appalling.
And the Israelis will point to this family living in their single room and say, look how useless these people are, they can’t even provide a proper home for their children.

And if they dare to retaliate and fight the settlers they will either be injured or killed by them, or then taken away by the IDF and locked up In prison for having the audacity to defend themselves and their land

The above was on sky news today
Absolutely outrageous settler behaviour allowed to happen by the Israeli government. Where is the justice?
50 armed settlers came and burned their house, took their livestock and have now illegally taken over their land
Leaving a extended family of 70 homeless.

And this has been going on for decades to the Palestinians all under the watch of the IDF and the Israeli government

Will they get their home and land back? Probably not
Will the settlers recieve any sort of punishment or even a measly fine? Also Probably not.

If someone stole just our car and the state allowed it and now the thief openly drives it infront of us then how would we feel? Yet the Palestinians are expected to just accept this abuse and humiliation

Subhi Shaledeh and his extended family had around 500 acres of prime grazing land in the Occupied West Bank, in the village of Janoub. They owned olive trees and hundreds of sheep. The land had been in the family for decades.
But overnight they lost their livelihood and their land.
Shaldedeh says on 9 October, two days after the 7 October attack by Hamas, settlers from an Israeli outpost, which is classed as illegal under both Israeli and international law, stormed their land and destroyed their homes.
"Over 50 settlers armed with long rifles, guns, knives and machetes came," Shaledeh says.
"They entered our homes, set our houses ablaze and took away our livestock."
The family of nine, including seven children, along with around 70 extended members of the Shaledeh clan, were suddenly homeless.
"The settlers took advantage of the war in Gaza. They expelled us from our land and told us to leave. 'This is an open war', they said."
With nothing to defend themselves with and no one to call on, the family was forced to immediately flee.
They haven't been able to return, the military has closed the roads, an Israeli checkpoint blocks the way, and the Shaledeh family say outpost settlers have taken over their land.
The Palestinian family is now renting one room for their large family in a nearby village. They can't harvest their olives or sell their sheep. Everything is gone.

@ItsRainingTacos79
Your point has been made over and over again on these threads but is consistently ignored. I don’t know who they think they’re fooling at this stage. Hopefully at any moment the world’s governments will stop allowing themselves to be tied up in these ridiculous lies and force a halt to this ongoing mass murder, homelessness and starvation.

I keep coming back to this thread to see if there is a discussion on how a two state solution would work but posters have only ever shut down the conversation by saying Hamas always rejects it. I've read that Hamas was open to John Kerry's plan in 2015/16 but the Israelis refused as it involved dismantling settlements. Prior to that, there was the peace deal that was scuppered by Rabin's assassination. What have been the sticking points since the? Hamas does ultimately want a two state solution despite the old rhetoric but the Israeli government is now saying there cannot be a Palestinian State.