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Conflict in the Middle East

Illegal settlements

345 replies

immigrant002 · 04/11/2023 17:32

I just watched a piece on itv and sky news how Palestinians are abandoning their houses in the west bank as they face severe intimidation by settlers and army forces

The reporter says the settlements are illegal they are universally accepted as illegal so my question is why is nobody doing anything ??
What is the purpose of international law and the UN ? Is it just Israel that gets away with is ?

I just don't see what the point of saying something is illegal but continuing to build more and more settlements for people from
US kicking Palestinians out of their homes ? Why are they getting away with this ?

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BelleHathor · 18/01/2025 10:52

SharonEllis · 18/01/2025 10:40

Are you saying rhe 'original sin' is the creation of the state of Israel?

No, the creation of Israel was the culmination of a number of things that denied the Palestinians their right to self determination.

Sykes-Picot, Balfour, UN resolution 181 were all external parties extrajudicially determining what should happen to the Palestinians.

The sin that this led to was the Nakba and the forceful removal of Palestinians from their land and homes with no compensation (and often by the barrel of a hun).

Plan Dalet shows that this was happening in 1947 prior to the creation of Israel.

SharonEllis · 18/01/2025 10:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Are you saying rhe 'original sin' is the creation of the state of Israel?

Dulra · 18/01/2025 10:16

“to convey a clear message of strengthening and encouraging the settlements, which are at the forefront of the struggle against Palestinian terrorism and face growing security challenges.”

So the illegal settlements are part of israeli government policy and supported. I thought people didn't agree with them?

BelleHathor · 18/01/2025 10:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

EasterIssland · 18/01/2025 09:45

BelleHathor · 18/01/2025 09:30

The vengeance that some Israeli government officials display is fascinating.
It's like the mere thought of any Palestinian joy or happiness makes them angry.

In my mind this is not going to end well. We(politicians)’ve not learnt anything and there won’t be peace in the area until settlements are dismantled , Israel abandons the occupied territories and Israel and Palestine change their governments. Whilst the same groups are in charge and settlements are allowed the same story will repeat time after time and there won’t be peace for Palestinians and Israelis.

BelleHathor · 18/01/2025 09:30

EasterIssland · 18/01/2025 08:10

Katz releases all settlers in administrative detention, ties it to Palestinians’ release
'It is better for the families of Jewish settlers to be happy than the families of freed terrorists,' defense minister says ahead of Gaza deal

he said, was meant “to convey a clear message of strengthening and encouraging the settlements, which are at the forefront of the struggle against Palestinian terrorism and face growing security challenges.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/katz-says-settlers-in-administrative-detention-to-go-free-ties-it-to-palestinian-release/amp/

The vengeance that some Israeli government officials display is fascinating.
It's like the mere thought of any Palestinian joy or happiness makes them angry.

EasterIssland · 18/01/2025 08:10

Katz releases all settlers in administrative detention, ties it to Palestinians’ release
'It is better for the families of Jewish settlers to be happy than the families of freed terrorists,' defense minister says ahead of Gaza deal

he said, was meant “to convey a clear message of strengthening and encouraging the settlements, which are at the forefront of the struggle against Palestinian terrorism and face growing security challenges.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/katz-says-settlers-in-administrative-detention-to-go-free-ties-it-to-palestinian-release/amp/

Scirocco · 15/01/2025 19:13

Dulra · 15/01/2025 16:59

He says it's intended to focus on countries that do not have their own robust accountability mechanisms, not for countries like Israel and the US that "solve their own problems".
Hmmm investigate themselves does he mean? And who decides which countries that do not have their own robust accountability mechanisms?

Accountability like "we're the most moral", "don't know what happened", "we're investigating", "oh no we didn't". Accountability like rewarding extremists with government positions, shutting down agencies raising concerns about sexual abuse of minors in detention settings, and covering up human rights abuses and high level fraud. Accountability like trying to control or shut down the press...

Yeah, lots of good quality accountability there.

Toothyfruity · 15/01/2025 18:50

It's for shithole countries, not countries like the US and their little pet. The crimes are irrelevant. They're only crimes when certain groups and states carry them out. The US and Israel can't commit crimes because they're special.

Amazing what they'll say out loud nowadays all the same.

Dulra · 15/01/2025 16:59

EasterIssland · 15/01/2025 16:50

Bbc

Over in the Rubio hearing, the nominee for secretary of state is criticising the International Criminal Court (ICC) for issuing an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Republican Chairman Risch brings up the topic, saying there are "real problems" at the ICC. He says it's intended to focus on countries that do not have their own robust accountability mechanisms, not for countries like Israel and the US that "solve their own problems". Rubio says the ICC has done "tremendous damage" to its credibility, mentioning the chief prosecutor, Karim Khan by name, saying his prosecution is "flawed". He says he does not know how can any country can coexist next to a "group of savages like Hamas". And Rubio repeats that if the ICC does not drop the warrant it will find its credibility badly damaged. He says it sets a dangerous precedent, saying he believes this is a test run by the court for applying its jurisdiction to US service members and leaders in future.

He says it's intended to focus on countries that do not have their own robust accountability mechanisms, not for countries like Israel and the US that "solve their own problems".
Hmmm investigate themselves does he mean? And who decides which countries that do not have their own robust accountability mechanisms?

EasterIssland · 15/01/2025 16:50

Dulra · 15/01/2025 15:34

If this is accurate it would be interesting to see how popular a war of attrition against the International Court of Justice in The Hague and against the arrest warrants issued against Netanyahu and former Defense Minister Yoav Galant would be with Americans.

Bbc

Over in the Rubio hearing, the nominee for secretary of state is criticising the International Criminal Court (ICC) for issuing an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Republican Chairman Risch brings up the topic, saying there are "real problems" at the ICC. He says it's intended to focus on countries that do not have their own robust accountability mechanisms, not for countries like Israel and the US that "solve their own problems". Rubio says the ICC has done "tremendous damage" to its credibility, mentioning the chief prosecutor, Karim Khan by name, saying his prosecution is "flawed". He says he does not know how can any country can coexist next to a "group of savages like Hamas". And Rubio repeats that if the ICC does not drop the warrant it will find its credibility badly damaged. He says it sets a dangerous precedent, saying he believes this is a test run by the court for applying its jurisdiction to US service members and leaders in future.
Dulra · 15/01/2025 15:34

EasterIssland · 14/01/2025 21:53

Trump might be planning to remove the sanctions imposed by Biden to settlers

Translation
In Trump's "gift bag" you can also find the cancellation of the sanctions lists imposed by the Biden administration on settlers and elements in the extreme right, who suffered greatly from this move, after the outgoing president was convinced that Israel had no intention of enforcing the law on them. There are also indications that Trump intends to wage a war of attrition against the International Court of Justice in The Hague and against the arrest warrants issued against Netanyahu and former Defense Minister Yoav Galant, and against additional measures that may already be taken there against other senior Israeli officials.for

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/bkj07tfwjl

Edited

If this is accurate it would be interesting to see how popular a war of attrition against the International Court of Justice in The Hague and against the arrest warrants issued against Netanyahu and former Defense Minister Yoav Galant would be with Americans.

EasterIssland · 14/01/2025 21:53

Trump might be planning to remove the sanctions imposed by Biden to settlers

Translation
In Trump's "gift bag" you can also find the cancellation of the sanctions lists imposed by the Biden administration on settlers and elements in the extreme right, who suffered greatly from this move, after the outgoing president was convinced that Israel had no intention of enforcing the law on them. There are also indications that Trump intends to wage a war of attrition against the International Court of Justice in The Hague and against the arrest warrants issued against Netanyahu and former Defense Minister Yoav Galant, and against additional measures that may already be taken there against other senior Israeli officials.for

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/bkj07tfwjl

הבטחות טראמפ, והתמורות הסודיות: "הולך על פרס נובל לשלום" | מאחורי העסקה

טיוטת ההסכם המתגבשת ממתינה לאישור חמאס, והיממה הקרובה היא קריטית. הנשיא הנבחר ואנשיו מפעילים את שיטת "התופינים והרקיקים", ומציעים הבטחות לכל הצדדים. "הפעם ביבי נשמע יותר בכיוון", הסביר גורם בכיר. "שקית המתנות" של הנשיא הנכנס, גם לסמוטריץ' - והקשר שלה ל...

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/bkj07tfwjl

SharonEllis · 10/01/2025 17:46

EasterIssland · 10/01/2025 17:35

You’re pointing at one paragraph of the whole news. Im pointing at other paragraphs within the same link.

This is a completely fascinating case study in how people read the media. The only way 'carte blanche' makes sense is if you ignore the bits that contradict it i.e - the bits that indicate that Trump's victory may not lead to carte blanche. Its weird because I would think you would find that interesting, but hey. Its been an education, so thanks for that, I suppose.

EasterIssland · 10/01/2025 17:35

SharonEllis · 10/01/2025 17:11

Im beginning to wonder if you and others have read it all. It clearly says Trump may not in fact be the enabler they hope/expect him to be because it might get in the way of the bigger deal that Trump probably wants to make.

You’re pointing at one paragraph of the whole news. Im pointing at other paragraphs within the same link.

Scirocco · 10/01/2025 17:24

Nothing that the incoming administration is likely to want, is likely to be at all positive for Palestinians.

SharonEllis · 10/01/2025 17:11

EasterIssland · 10/01/2025 16:43

i guess you’re talking about me
the article clearly estates that the new appointed ambassador In USA as well as Israeli settlers see trumps victory will enable them continuing annexing to West Bank because this land belongs to them. So no, the link I’ve posted doesn’t clearly says something different to what I was posting.

Im beginning to wonder if you and others have read it all. It clearly says Trump may not in fact be the enabler they hope/expect him to be because it might get in the way of the bigger deal that Trump probably wants to make.

EasterIssland · 10/01/2025 16:44

I’ll not continue discussing with you about my comment because at the end the point of the link has been fully derailed. Palestinians will continue losing their land.

EasterIssland · 10/01/2025 16:43

SharonEllis · 10/01/2025 16:28

But the article was saying something diffetent.Its confusing when someone posts an article sayimg something different to the point they apparently want to make.

i guess you’re talking about me
the article clearly estates that the new appointed ambassador In USA as well as Israeli settlers see trumps victory will enable them continuing annexing to West Bank because this land belongs to them. So no, the link I’ve posted doesn’t clearly says something different to what I was posting.

Dulra · 10/01/2025 16:36

SharonEllis · 10/01/2025 16:28

But the article was saying something diffetent.Its confusing when someone posts an article sayimg something different to the point they apparently want to make.

Its confusing when someone posts an article sayimg something different to the point they apparently want to make.
Maybe for some it is

SharonEllis · 10/01/2025 16:28

Dulra · 10/01/2025 16:26

Yes very clear what you meant. They have complete freedom to act as they wish. The very definition of carte blanche

But the article was saying something diffetent.Its confusing when someone posts an article sayimg something different to the point they apparently want to make.

Dulra · 10/01/2025 16:26

EasterIssland · 10/01/2025 07:52

I didn’t put that from a Trump POV but from a settler pov

Yes very clear what you meant. They have complete freedom to act as they wish. The very definition of carte blanche

SharonEllis · 10/01/2025 15:18

Scirocco · 10/01/2025 12:29

'Settlers' are giving themselves and their groups powers and resources to achieve these things. There are extremist 'settlers' and their supporters in the government who are driving processes to achieve the aim of eradicating Palestine and Palestinians from the land they see as 'theirs'. They have sufficient support within the government, political systems and Israeli society to progress these processes. In doing so, they are brutally oppressing people. This involves sexual violence, murder, torture, imprisonment, serious physical violence, destruction of people's homes and livelihoods, withholding access to water and food, intimidation and much more. These things are able to happen openly, with minimal consequences for perpetrators.

People in positions of authority around the world are supporting and facilitating this, and the incoming administration in the US is likely to provide even more support. Members of it have openly spoken in support of 'settlers' expanding their activities and expressed that the 'divine right' they cite is of more value than the rights of people actually physically living there under occupation. People closely linked with the administration have openly discussed how taking ownership of the land in Gaza and the West Bank would be financially advantageous for Israel, without any concern for the cost in terms of human life and human rights.

You're still missing the point but I can't explain it a third time.

Dulra · 10/01/2025 13:48

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This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Dulra · 10/01/2025 13:15

BelleHathor · 10/01/2025 12:59

The American Congress is going ever further, with 2 bills introduced in the House and the Senate aiming to remove any references in American government documents to the West Bank replacing it with "Judea and Samaria".
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-senator-introduces-bill-redefine-occupied-west-bank-judea-and-samaria

Edited

That's depressing hopefully it won't get passed, it's just taking over the west bank through the back door, normalising the name slowly distancing any claim from Palestinians on the area. Very calculated