Illegal settlements

@Gettingcolder thanks for sharing. I'm glad it acknowledged the illegal land grab off Palestinian owners. How convenient for Israel to formulate a law allowing this 🙄. It fails to acknowledge that the settlements were strategic to render the Palestinian state impossible, although I cannot see why it is considered an "impossibility" of moving settlers. Millions of Palestinians have been displaced, why is that OK but moving Jewish people isn't? The reality is that it's a strategic, calculated plan to completely rid the West Bank of Palestinians. Refer to Daniella Weiss, former mayor and head of settler society for the full plan. Trigger warning: inciting hatred, hateful speech, justifying of murder of Palestinians.

Please tell me that's a joke.

This is a disgusting land grab, opposed by many Jewish people

Strongly agree

I think the best place for a Jewish homeland is Florida, after all the US adores Jews so they will be very welcome and I have no doubt they will live in harmony.

This is a disgusting land grab, opposed by many Jewish people.

At the end of the it is a David and Goliath situation and Palestine has no chance. Israel wants to displace the Palestinians entirely and has the full backing of the US.

I try very hard to remain neutral in all this, so I am not posting from any particular viewpoint but do want to add that the situation in the West Bank is complex and that I believe Israel's intentions are to ensure that the threat of Palestinians outnumbering Jews in Israel can never happen. They believe that if this happened, it would be catastrophic and lead to the end of Israel.

In any conflict, in order to reach resolution it is important to understand the thought process of both sides. This thread quite rightly condemns the violence in the West Bank but unfortunately it appears there is no easy solution. For those who are interested this site gives more background and although Jewish, is generally considered to be fairly balanced.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/facts-about-jewish-settlements-in-the-west-bank

Interesting that Ben-Gvir and how extreme his views are, settle the entire West Bank etc is starting to be talked about on mainstream news sites.

I, too, enjoy reading your posts @lavender2023 . They’re well written and very informative. Thank you.

It’s an utter mess. Incompetence, greed and brutality all combined.

Well it's there now, but it needs to adhere to international law. The problem is it doesn't intend to and the UK and US props it up.
I was listening to Ghada Karmi yesterday speaking and she said the two state solution is at a complete dead end. Israel have said they will not withdraw from the settlements, so geographically a two state solution is not possible. She said the solution is a democratic one state solution, equality and citizenship for all is the only way forward. The Palestinians really need peace and the right to self determine, which they have been denied for the last 75 years. The displaced people need right to return. The UK, US and Israel need to make serious reparations for what they have done.

Where would you have the Jewish homeland instead? I can’t really see that it could go anywhere else…

This is utterly appalling. They can’t even blame Hamas. Israel is completely out of control.

I didn't know that he was from Spain as his name doesn't sound Spanish. I read his speech and it is well reasoned. Some excerpts:

Gaza is more or less like Barcelona – 2.5 million [people]. Just imagine half of this city being turned into rubble, in order to visualise what we are talking about. All [of] that, most of the public opinion around the world considers [it] unacceptable.

The violence spread by extremist settlers in the West Bank, many times under protection from the Israeli police and military, does not make Israel safer. The settlements are Israel’s greatest security liability. It is also for that reason that they are considered a grave breach of international humanitarian law. I was appalled to see that the Israel government plans to allocate another $43 million to increase the settlement activities and I have condemned it.

Hamas is more than just an organisation and a terrorist organisation for the Europeans. It is an idea, an ideology. And you cannot kill an idea unless you prove that you have a better one. And to defeat the ideology of Hamas, Palestinians need a credible political prospect for statehood based on international parameters.

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/israelgaza-opening-remarks-high-representativevice-president-josep-borrell-8th-regional-forum-union_en?channel=eeas_press_alerts&date=2023-11-27&newsid=0&langid=en&source=mail

Finally he criticises Israel’s actions! He’s from the eu and has been doing several comments about the conflict but never directly about Israel

Israel-Palestine conflict: A brief history in maps and charts https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/27/palestine-and-israel-brief-history-maps-and-charts

The LBC interview with Eylon Levy, Israeli spokesperson. Listen specifically to the discussion at 14.00 minutes into the show - spokesperson disputes West Bank settlements are illegal under international law.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=eG5_6B1qlnM

Our western governments need to have a serious think about what they're supporting when the Israeli government is openly saying they consider the West Bank is theirs.

Israeli settlers steal Palestinian farmers’ land in occupied West Bank https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/11/26/israeli-settlers-steal-palestinian-farmers-land-in-occupied-west-bank

Ah so a tiny figure compared to the west bank settlements
Unfortunately I have that fear too, there's lots of videos going round of soldiers singing we are going to take over Gush Katif etc
The US is making their stance clear on it but the question is how much influence does Biden really have on Netanyahu? Or any future prime ministers

they dismantled 21 settlements and moved 9000 people. Many of them still want to go back to gaza but i think many of them living in other settlements or on the periphery. They still want to go back to Gaza though and i fear that may be Netanyahu's intention!

The housing crisis doesn't make it excusable, many countries have housing crisis but in the words of a friend, I want us to build more housing but I don't want us to invade France to make this possible!

I would prefer the NY apartment to a villa in the settlement, the apartment in NY is not on occupied land. There are fewer protections under Israeli law when it comes to land in the occupied territories. And of course the locals are not going to be super happy. Bad things will inevitably happen even if your daily life feels safe, there is always risk of infiltration and violence on the road. Rabbi Leo Dee says that Efrat is safer than London/ UK but at the same time, I have never heard of anyone's wife and two daughters being shot while they were out on a day trip in England.

Many countries do manage to absorb refugees and immigrants and provide them with housing; another issue is Israel's high fertility rate and relatively long lifespan (Mediterranean food and lots of walking!) I think though they need to build higher and its a good thing to accept Jewish people fleeing persecution. I do think the many benefits and money given to Western olim from rich developed countries is a bit unnecessary. I am an immigrant and I have never accepted a penny of help from the UK and neither do most immigrants expect it. We generally only offer it to asylum seekers and thats the way it should be- financial help should only be given to those immigrants fleeing persecution.

If they love Israel, the money shouldn't be a barrier and they could just save up to move. But I do think it would probably cut down aliyah numbers considerably...It is also good for the immigrants as it would force new olim to think carefully before making the move and see whether its financially viable rather than getting a nasty shock after they arrive.

From June 2023

https://www.timesofisrael.com/visiting-evyatar-ben-gvir-tells-settlers-to-head-for-the-hilltops-expand-outposts/

“There needs to be a full settlement here. Not just here but on all the hilltops around us,” Ben Gvir said. “We have to settle the land of Israel and at the same time need to launch a military campaign, blow up buildings, assassinate terrorists. Not one, or two, but dozens, hundreds, or if needed, thousands.”

"The land of Israel for the Nation of Israel,” he said, employing a nativist slogan meant to promote exclusive Jewish control of the land between the Mediterranean and Jordan River.

Good point.

Love your posts @lavender2023 but blaming illegal settlements on a 'housing crisis' makes the settlers the victims. Of course they want luxury, one of the 'pulls' is that they are paying the same amount for a villa with swimming pool as they are for a cramped 2 bed apartment in NY. Many I met didn't even intend to live there full time, it was considered a holiday home and an investment for when they had to marry off their dc. This is why I'm against the idea of the Jewish homeland being in Israel as it is, because as more people arrive the 'housing crisis' gets worse, and of course no one gives any thought to the housing crisis of the Palestinians, on whose land these illegal settlements were built 😔.

@lavender2023 yes I know Israel has alot of support from India, Modi the MP of India is just about as corrupt as Netanyahu.

Land swap is a good idea, as you say it seems impossible but when Israel removed Israeli nationals from Gaza how many people left then do you know?
If it was possible to do so then, maybe it's possible to do so from the west bank too.

It's just so unfair how the Palestinians are treated in the west bank, and its often conveniently ignored. I have a friend who has family there and she said over the years it has become worse and worse and she really worries for the future