If it's all about destroying terrorist targets hidden underneath civilian areas...

Yes given you think you can just chuck special forces in or Mossad. Israel have a specialist unit for tunnels (because it is actually a specialism).

I would think so. Considering it's enemy is hiding out in an extensive network of tunnels.

Who is not calling for the ceasefire? The UN assembly called for a ceasefire with an overwhelming majority.
Polls are showing a majority of people across political divides in US and UK calling for a ceasefire.
Even Biden is now calling for a ‘pause’ in the conflict

<<People don't believe or trust the Israeli Govt. They make Farage look like Ghandi This is an opinion piece but it pulls together what many people are generally thinking. They are rapidly losing public support. I suspect they don't care a bit though>*>
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Out of curiosity, which people? The people you know or have you polled the nation? I've been in loads of different meetings recently and it's surprising how often the subject comes up. The 'people' I hear are not all on one side, they can see it from both sides.

The media has focused solely on what Israel is doing in Gaza but has mostly neglected to mention that Hamas continues to pummel Israel with rockets and most Israelis are living in lockdown and in and out of their safe rooms as rockets whistle over their heads. Nowhere is safe and just recently a terrorist stabbed a police officer in Jerusalem.

The only reason Israel is not a pile of rubble is because they have a good defence system. Gaza could have had one of those too and it also could have had a healthy economy but Hamas leaders prefer to keep the money themselves or spend it on rockets they throw at their neighbours.

Hamas has said repeatedly over and over again (for as long as they've been in power) that their goal is to keep going until Israel no longer exists. If Israel stopped tomorrow, gave in to all the demands for land this would not change. Hamas would continue to send suicide bombers and rockets and before too long probably attempt another large scale murderous invasion. Hamas wants Jerusalem and for all Jews to be dead. That's the goal.

If you lived next door to someone who constantly shot bullets through your walls, kidnapped your kids and declared they'd keep going until you were dead, chances are you'd not want to sit round a table to have a negotiation over a cup of tea. You'd want them out once and for all.

There is a great deal of misinformation and many 'buzz words' being thrown around on MN from people whose only knowledge of the conflict is what their favourite news channel has told them.

I doubt many MN posters have ever been to Israel or Gaza or know any Arabs, Israelis or Palestinians. I know quite a few and have spent a big chunk of time in both Israel and the West Bank.

We would all benefit from loosening our grip on our firmly entrenched ideas (based 100% on what the media tells us - the media that, don't forget, makes its money from stirring up rage and fear) and actually listening to what 'the other side' says.

Oh and @Noorandapples - if it was in Israel the IDF would be able to go in without fearing the building was booby trapped. So that's why that would be a completely different scenario.

I mean, Hamas have even booby trapped dead bodies 🤦🏻‍♀️ They found time during the massacre to booby trap homes.

I think the tunnels being underground hides them. It doesn't make them bombproof. Also the Israeli Army is going in on the ground as well so it can destroy them from the ground with better precision.

No, underground tunnels have some degree of protection but are NOT indestructible from above ground either.

They CAN be destroyed in whole or partially from missiles, depending the weapon of choice

I would imagine Hamas anticipated being bomber and designed them to withstand bombing as far as possible

This will target as many tunnels as possible before the Israel Defense Force goes in. It makes it that bit easier for them to operate in hostile enemy territory. Any remaining tunnels will be destroyed by on the ground troops.

I’m glad bombing refugee camps will make things a bit easier

I thought it was established yesterday that Hamas are still hiding above ground among civilians in eg refugee camps? How else would the 7 hostages they say were killed in the bombing have been there?

@Icefoot

But that's what special forces do. That's what they're for and Israel's are supposed to be the best.

I fear you have a mistaken idea of what most "Special Forces" actually are and what they can do.

Look at most variants around the world and they tend to be small in number, operate in small units, and are often used intelligence gathering or, if force is going to be used, it's very small scale but specialist stuff (e.g. The Iranian Embassy siege in London way back, intervening in airliner/ship hijackings etc).

They don't tend to get used in big battlefield type actions or it situations where you need hundreds soldiers, they simply don't have the numbers..

Clearing these tunnels is such a large job it's largely going to be "grunt" work, possibly proceeded by the use of bunker penetrating munitions.

Would you really? And how much military/conflict experience do you have exactly? Perhaps you should send your CV off to IDF. Or the UN. They're crying out for experts who can offer a solution to all these global conflicts without causing civilian casualties.

Yes but is Mossad full of engineering and tunnel collapse specialists?

when they don’t call for a ceasefire and pressurise all sides for negotiation and peace

A ceasefire would just enable Hamas to regroup

its not the answer & that's why it's not being called for.

ok there are something like 300 miles of tunnels. IDF will stick out like a sore thumb, the equipment required to actually take down a tunnel has to be moved through a dense city with enemy combatants in it. Whilst you are trying to collapse a tunnel people will be shooting at you or coming up from hidey holes behind you. You also have to take engineers with you with you to prevent the whole thing coming down on YOUR head while you are moving through. The reason the bombardment is so intense is precisely because it is going to be extremely difficult.

Hypothetically, if you were attacking a country with miles and miles of tunnels with combatants inside it would you not try to destroy/damage some of them before you send your own specialists (who by the way are valuable to your army because you can only train so many at a time) to limit your own casualties?

This

I honestly think the plan is to just get Hamas to prevent a reoccurrence of the 7th October attacks on Israel. then leave Gaza to it, no electricity or water from Israel, no work visa’s nothing. Just a border with mines on it.

All these hypotheticals aren’t real and anyway Egypt won’t open the gates to Palestinian refugees so it’s kind of moot point.

They're clearing land to build on and clearing humans because they don't see them as people. If they didn't want to kill civilians they could easily rehouse them within their own buildings before the bombings. If hamas were hiding underneath an Israeli housing block they certainly wouldn't bomb it.

The problem is Gaza is densely packed, the tunnels are literally under the buildings. They would have to be able to find each entry and exit to actually be able to get in. I don’t think they have the luxury of wandering around gaza staring at buildings unimpeded. They probably have an idea of where the tunnels are but finding the entry points will be much more difficult as there hasn’t been any IDF in there since 2007.

@Icefoot its the quickest way to “cleanse” the area isn’t it?

People don't believe or trust the Israeli Govt. They make Farage look like Ghandi
This is an opinion piece but it pulls together what many people are generally thinking. They are rapidly losing public support. I suspect they don't care a bit though
A Conspiracy of Silence - Carnegie Middle East Center - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (carnegie-mec.org)