Israel confirms

Yes let’s just hide under a stone and pretend it’s not happening….mustn’t offend you delicate souls who just want fluffy kittens and coronation street !

They appear to be the only people in that stupid nation that do, actually.

From the horses mouth. Hamas don't give a stuff about the lives of ordinary Palestinians. And suggesting that Hamas, Hamas of everyone, have a care for hostage lives, is a cruel joke.

Because Israel wants to completely destroy Hamas

Which is somewhat understandable given that Hamas have just reiterated that it's their goal to wipe out Israel.

https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199

It's all there. They are literally telling you who they are and what their intentions are. Can they not at least get a little bit of the blame?

SomeCatFromJapan, such a simple solution, but what does Hamas surrendering actually look like. Because Israel wants to completely destroy Hamas. If all the hostages were released Israel would keep bombing, possibly even more as there would be no one worthy to protect. If all Hamas stood in a neat line so that they could be shot or bombed all at once it still wouldn’t stop the bombing. It would also lead to a total ground invasion with even greater civilian casualties , There would be no one to stop Israeli soldiers from doing whatever they wanted to do.

We're all sixth formers here apparently 😬

A fair and accurate appraisal of the situation. Israel has no choice but to defend itself.

Is there any reason why Hamas stop their rocket fire, hand over the hostages and surrender to Israel in order to secure a ceasefire and prioritise Palestinian lives?

Jabalia was not a tent city of refugees, but rather a built up neighbourhood of apartment buildings etc with a huge network of Hamas tunnels and munitions built underneath - and Hamas does not let any civilians use its well fortified tunnels as bomb shelters. Hamas has even stated publicly in recent interviews that it is not responsible for its civilians, but the UN and Israel is.

War is horrible and bloody and deadly and Hamas has the blood on its hands of the death of its civilians.

Why is no one asking Hamas to stop bombing Israel, which it continues to do every day, but which does not get reported in main stream media? Why is no one asking Hamas to return the hostages? If Hamas really wanted the war to end, it would acknowledge the right of Israel to exist (and also Jews around the world - just look at the Hamas charter).

Hamas was pushed into the 7 October terror attack by Iran on the eve of a monumental step towards peace in the Middle East with the Abraham Accords. The same Iran where a 16 year old girl was beaten and just died for daring to show her hair in public.

The situation is complicated and ugly. I'm not saying Israel is perfect, not at all. Nor is Israeli society unanimously behind Netanyahu and his government - remember the massive protests by many many many Israeli's almost every day this summer over the Netanyahu government - but right now, it is facing an existential threat and will do what it takes to continue to exist.

What are you on about ? I am referring to you saying criticising israel is antisemitic ! Nothing about a list !

Your arguments "But hamas ... human shields ... antisemitic "! Enough! There are innocent lives being lost on both sides no one is disputing that ! We are disputing the amount of force used by israel military

Many people from different backgrounds religions and political ideologies are criticising the force israel is using including jewish people ! Saying all these people are ultimately antisemitic is complete rubbish

@Pheasantsgame why is it rubbish ? Criticising israel policies and israel government is not anti Semitic end of !

I for once find it disgusting that you are using jewish people suffering and prosecution to shut down any criticism of israel ! Most holocaust survivors or victims would be absolutely horrifies at israels actions not just now but over the years !
Never again to anyone !

I am feeling guilty about the role we play as bystanders. I am not trying to be patronising here, as I am watching people's lives (and their deaths) every day through a lens, and screen and probably without their consent and they are smelling, seeing, feeling and watching this first hand.

The privilege of it is making me uneasy. Here I am pondering on the rights and wrongs of a conflict that isn't yet affecting me in any way apart from psychologically, bickering about intentionality and morality with complete strangers on the internet whilst also unable to look away. If we look away and delete and stop discussing it what are we? If we keep looking, thinking and discussing it without really being true agents of change what are we? I keep justifying it to myself, that I have a part to play and a voice to share because I'm compassionate for people and I worry about escalation and Iran, Russia and US involvement creating global conflict. I do have some skin in the game at as a public health researcher, with insight from people around me who are experts in the health implications if civil order breaks down, but really, am I just entertaining myself? What responsibility am I taking towards others if I'm battling with them on the internet? Am I a hypocrite saying people need to take responsibility for civilians. What unknown upset am I causing? Social media consumption is so new and not fully understood at all. I wonder what they will make of the way we used it in the future.

This has nothing to do with the truth. It’s the disgraceful comments around Shani Louk and other innocent civilians (Israeli and Palestinian) caught up in this atrocity. What if their family were to read such things?
This thread is a toxic mess.

Is there independent evidence to back up the claims?
Anecdotal and other evidence does suggest that Hamas and other factions have used civilian objects including hospitals and schools. Guardian journalists in 2014 encountered armed men inside one hospital, and sightings of senior Hamas leaders inside the Shifa hospital have been documented.
During the 2014 conflict the UN reported weapons were found inside two UN schools and there have been numerous reports of Palestinian armed factions in Gaza firing rockets and other weapons from close to protected civilian locations. It is also clear that Hamas has operated from residential buildings.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/human-shield-israel-claim-hamas-command-centre-under-hospital-palestinian-civilian-gaza-city

Are you for real? Wanting to remove Hamas doesn’t allow Israel to commit war crimes in doing so.

You didnt listen
I have sadly learnt much about this situation in the last few weeks, the history,the hatred. But the vitriol on this thread, from both sides, and the lack of compassion for the innocent from all walks of life, is disgusting

Any attempts to shut down this thread, like the other Mumsnet threads in mid-October(!!!), are clearly disingenuous attempts to silence any opposition to the status quo. Just like Suella Braverman would happily shut down the protests now her cohort are losing public support.

Wanting to pull a thread about a discussion about bombing a refugee camp and the horrors of this war.
Thats sick
The truth can’t be hidden by pulling a mumsnet thread you know

I’m taking solace in the fact that younger generations- perhaps because of the rise of social media, they are objectively able to see what is happening for themselves, without being force fed just the Western mainstream media narrative- are starting to stand up for Palestine.

@ProvincialLady1
and they dare to call them terrorists whilst they look down their gun