Hatred of the Jewish Community

Some Jews in Iraq stayed until the 1970s before they were forced out, yes. In fact, I met someone who didn't leave until the late 90s, which I found unusual! Others were forced out long before Israel was established. They were second class citizens all along, some just put up with it a lot longer than others. There were also events like the Fargud pogrom in 1941, so before Israel. Some of my family had already left before that though as it had been made clear to them they weren't welcome.

I think there has always been discrimination of Jews. Yes it started during Biblical times. I have a theory that they were othered by strict Christians personally; seeing as they were blamed for the crucifixion of Jesus, not listening to Moses and that blame stuck and was propagated to tropes that we see in the media etc. For many many years, Jews lived peacefully in the Middle East more a very long time. The Europeans were a different story though.

Also, Jews were othered by many because they stuck together, and for mainstream christian individuals, they saw that as threatening. They saw that the lack of integration as threatening. Jews were not allowed in certain jobs as a result and so picked professions they could take with them so to speak. So many families started small jewellery businesses, because at a drop of a hat, if under threat they can pick up pieces and go. Jewish people are a part of a very strong community and look out for on another. Unfortunately some people see that as threatening too, and conflate that with nepotism/networking etc. This fuels the anti semitic tropes that we hear about when it comes to 'control'.

As many could not find jobs in mainstream professions, they would go to professions that were creative I suppose; comedy, music, stage, film were avenues that were more inclusive.

The Jewish faith values cleanliness- I've heard somewhere that the Jews were becoming suspect during the plague as they did not contract it as badly as others, as they were cleaner (is true for travellers in Europe too)

They are typically scapegoated for that.
Happy to be corrected but these are all bits of things I have picked up over the yers through reading and documentaries

I can accept the statement that racism is taken more seriously than antisemitism, but only in the sense that the average person seems to be more offended to be called the former. That does not translate to more empathy being shown to visible minorities, people are often fine with the racism just not the accusation. While there is a lot of great allyship, there is also a lot that is performative. If racism was taken as seriously as some pp suggest you’d expect to see better life outcomes for some groups of visible minorities.

I know I’ve done it myself, but I actually think it is incredibly unhelpful to compare the experiences of discrimination between different groups. Anti black racism, anti Asian racism, Islamophobia, antisemitism, discrimination faced by travellers etc all present very differently and when we start comparing invariably the experiences of one group end up being dismissed or minimised. That is not how we uplift each other. I don’t look at how any other minority group is treated in the UK and think that that should be the gold standard. The problem all minorities face, (even the white ones) is that we’re operating in a society where there are pervasive white supremacist that exclude and demean us.

To be clear I’m not attributing discrimination to white people only. I do recognise that there is a lot of antisemitism coming from members of other minority groups too. I’m not trying to dismiss that, it’s just from my point of view the lack of state action is not because they particular care about visible minority groups. British Jews are just being given the same lackadaisical lack of care as other minorities.

Didn’t Jews in Iraq generally live peacefully amongst Muslims and Christians until after Israel was created?

Hence why Iraq had the largest Jewish population in the Middle East before Israel.

Just out of interest, if you don’t mind my asking, are you Jewish @eardefender ? I’m not (although did live in Israel for a few months) so I don’t feel I pick up on casual anti semitism. I am noticing it more though since it was brought to my attention.

@eardefender totally agree. The actions of Israel give a green light to the anti semites.

This is absolutely true of a depressing number of threads recently and I admit that I did a search on the OP before posting and didn't get any "off" vibe at all (sorry OP, there have been some really appalling threads and comments)

I think though one can forget that other people sometimes don't know stuff that you do and posting facts does no harm, even if a bad actor is behind the query.

@TeacupKitty
Just out of interest, what do you think was the reason for Jews being kicked out of eg Iraq before Israel was established? Seeing as you think antisemitism only exists nowadays because of Israel.

@TeacupKitty Sadly it is the actions of Israel that have created this animosity in recent times.

This sums up antisemitism for me. So casual. So embedded.

This is such nonsense. Israel had to be created because of antisemitism. Antisemitism goes back centuries. How many massacres and pogroms before the Holocaust do you need to understand this? How was what happened in Russia the result of people making a foreign policy statement about the actions of the Israeli government? This is victim blaming. If it was the actions of the Israeli government that were at the root of antisemitism why would jews in this country get harassed? Get real people.

I don't understand it either, same for any form of racism. I understand the history and can understand the causes of resentment and anger. I just don't understand how anyone can see or hear a cultural identifier and then judge everyone as the same. I don't understand why people don't question generational bias and decide for themselves to let go of millennia old resentment. I don't understand and I probably never will. There are bad people, yes but they come from all walks of life.

True - it's just that there are a suspiciously large number of threads on the Middle East topic that start with similar wording "Excuse my ignorance " or "I'm not well educated" or "i dont know much about history" etc but could someone please explain to me [insert something emotive about the conflict].

The OP then comes back maybe just once or twice but otherwise doesn't engage much.

My concern is that genuine responders are being played and the intention of the OP is not to genuinely seek information but to create a post that will degenerate into an emotive whaboutery rant that hardens existing views, divides opinions further and makes any reasoned compromise that much harder to reach.

@TeacupKitty

mmm but uk isn’t Israel and British Jews are British Jews. My old friend is totally secular but for years has received antisemitism because of her name. She’s not responsible for the actions of Israel just as my son’s friend was asked by journalists what he thought of the killing of an MP (killer and pal both Somali origin
😳).

A lot is to do with religion.
Christian and Muslim were historically anti semitic.
I remember it among older people when I was a child (I'm 65 so post war), even after all that happened in the war my great grandmother would make casual anti Jewish comments.
I feel like the general population in the UK is much less religious than 70 years ago, in particular the Christian religion. When I grew up everyone went to church, now it's rare. I am not remotely interested in religion, not least because it seems to be at the root of much hatred in the world - NI and Israel in particular.

It appears to me that the vast, vast majority of the really hateful anti semitism I have seen in the last three weeks stems from those who have some religeous ideology behind them. Whereas those who are more protesting at the war in general are from a wider range of backgrounds

Let's face it, there are far stupider threads on there than the 'forgive my ignorance' seen in the op.

Russia were never friendly to the Jewish people. My family were forced to leave in the 1880s.

Some really interesting and thought provoking replies here. I will watch and read the links provided. Thanks. Hopefully we can keep it civil on this thread.

And I totally disagree with the poster @NmeChngeFail who says anti semitism is seen as the worst - the opposite I think. And I say that as a white non - Jewish person. Even the term “Jew” is bandied around and I believe it’s offensive to many Jewish people (well I was listening to David B who was talking about it on the radio.)

NmeChngeFail · Today 09:57

I disagree, antisemitism is seen as the worst.

You could be racist, disabilist and islamophobic and still keep your job.

Even on threads here, look how long a thread which is racist against black people gets to stand.

Newspapers can post racist stories and images and get away with it. See many racist cartoon portrayals and articles. Then see if someone will get away posting something antisemitic, they would get fired straight away.

Being called antisemitic is the biggest stain of someone's character and image after that its transphobia.

this is just total and utter bollocks with literally no foundation whatsoever- do you honestly believe this??

From an anonymously forum where there are multiple similar threads that descend into bunfights? I doubt it.

And most of what you read on Google was written by actual people.

Getting answers from actual people gives a better answer than Google.

Surely it would make more sense to Google it first.

I’m Muslim and I’ve never seen or experienced that. I think it’s certain communities rather than Muslims more generally, as this hatred of Jews that people claim Muslims have is something I have never experienced.

My own parents are religious practising Muslims, and some of their closest friends are Jews. My dad is very religious, and the one person he trusts more than his own siblings is Jewish.

There are no doubt insular Muslim communities who don’t like Jews simply because they are Jewish, but it’s not something that is given.

Are you forgetting Boris Johnson’s Islamophobia?

This country has a history of turning a blind eye to any kind of racism. Whether it’s the far right or the far left, racism is tolerated and justified. A large part of Brexit was focussed on keeping foreigners out.

I mean, look at the crowd funding campaign for those two police officers who were sacked for lying. Over £100k donated. I suspect the support would be very different if the athletes involved were white.

We might like to think the UK doesn’t have a race problem, but we really do.

That’s not quite what happened.

The owner of the pharmacy shared a couple of tweets that referred to “filthy animals” and asking where is Iran now. Not at all clear whether the “filthy animals” were Jews, Israel or IDF, but a local campaign was started claiming the pharmacy owner had been posting anti semitic tweets specifically calling Jews various names and calling for the killing of Jews. There were also claims made that the owner admitted it was him and stood by his comments. None of these claims were backed by evidence.

So then there were calls to vandalise the pharmacy and to paint the Israeli flag and Star of David all over the pharmacy. Looks like it was limited to the putting up posters of hostage victims, but there was a mob mentality developing locally, so police intervened.

So not quite as simple as police pulling down posters.

The OP asked a QUESTION ffs

I myself was not sure why

You have some attitude there!