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Conflict in the Middle East

In one paragraph can you summarise the Israel / Hamas conflict?

143 replies

curmudgeonlydoesit · 31/10/2023 08:53

as if I was 12 please?

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Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:45

Actually the Jews have repeatedly been forced out of European countries, it certainly didn't start with the Holocaust.

Teddleshon · 01/11/2023 09:27

The Jews were forced out of Europe.

Fleetheart · 01/11/2023 09:03

@NotSuchASmugMarried what a crazy thing to say. would you be happy if we were moved out of the UK because we have the whole of Europe?

Fahbeep · 01/11/2023 09:02

Teddleshon · 01/11/2023 08:35

And just in terms of context, there are just 16.1 million Jews worldwide and one Jewish State. There are 1.8bn Muslims worldwide (around 25% of the population) and around 50 Muslim majority countries.

I had no idea there were so few Jewish people. I see the figure came from Wikipedia so presumably a reasonable estimate (peer checked). I imagine that low number is representative of the prejudice and repression Jews have faced across history. I wonder what the number would be today but for the holocaust. Are there any sensible projections on that, to help frame and understand the horrific depth and consequences of the holocaust?

NotSuchASmugMarried · 01/11/2023 08:58

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auberginefortea · 01/11/2023 08:41

I also think what gets lost is that "Nationalism" with a capital N is quite a recent phenomenon. Happy to be corrected, but broadly speaking Palestinian Arabs didn't think of themselves as living in a country called Palestine - and Arab Nationalism grew roughly concurrently with Zionism, and often in response to it.

Teddleshon · 01/11/2023 08:35

And just in terms of context, there are just 16.1 million Jews worldwide and one Jewish State. There are 1.8bn Muslims worldwide (around 25% of the population) and around 50 Muslim majority countries.

auberginefortea · 01/11/2023 08:28

TakeMe2Insanity · 01/11/2023 08:15

This!

You know this is nonsense - this is my understanding of why ...

Jews suffered terribly at the hands of the Nazi's and they asked the British if it would be ok to have a homeland in Palestine.
The demand for a homeland grew from the mid/late 19th Century to early 20th century, and the Balfour declaration came in 1917. The Balfour declaration was in any case quite non-committal.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Plus, many of the Jewish population came from (a) Russia and other Eastern European states and (b) other Arab countries - nothing to do with the Nazis.

They wanted somewhere where they could be safe and never persecuted again. The British said "sure, no problem, you can have Palestine" so the Jews moved in.
Jewish immigration grew from the early 19th century, although peaked in the 1930 and 1940s.

Britain definitely didn't say "no problem". Indeed, Britain opposed the foundation of a Jewish state in 1948.

The Palestinians said "WTF?" and the Jews said "Sorry, it's ours now. Out."
In reality, much of the land was sold by Arabs (admittedly absentee landlords) to Jewish immigrants. It's true that there has been Arab opposition to Jewish immigration right from the start.

Happy to be corrected as my understanding is nowhere near complete.

elephantblock · 01/11/2023 08:21

I don't know why people can't read about this properly, or watch one of the many YouTube videos on the subject.

It's complicated, but not beyond the realms of comprehension for most people.

So lazy to ask people to summarise for you

SomeCatFromJapan · 01/11/2023 08:20

OP wiki isn't perfect but it's a start and might give you enough knowledge to at least be able to critically assess some if these replies, which rather vary in accuracy.

Lavenderflower · 01/11/2023 08:16

It has a lot more to do with the UK and America...a lot has to do with money

TakeMe2Insanity · 01/11/2023 08:15

JustMaggie · 31/10/2023 09:11

Jews suffered terribly at the hands of the Nazi's and they asked the British if it would be ok to have a homeland in Palestine. They wanted somewhere where they could be safe and never persecuted again. The British said "sure, no problem, you can have Palestine" so the Jews moved in. The Palestinians said "WTF?" and the Jews said "Sorry, it's ours now. Out."

This!

SomeCatFromJapan · 01/11/2023 08:14

Omid Djalili has an interesting take regarding Iran's role, well worth a read:

https://twitter.com/omid9/status/1719451267997593645

https://twitter.com/omid9/status/1719451267997593645

Thisusernamenotavailable · 01/11/2023 08:10

Two populous nations each refuse to give up fighting for power over the same tiny piece of land. And kill a lot of babies in the process. People elsewhere in the world get to feel righteous and superior by supporting one side or the other and continue not to give a damn about the 20+ other murderous wars going on around the globe.

Ohdearanotheryear · 01/11/2023 08:01

JustMaggie · 31/10/2023 09:11

Jews suffered terribly at the hands of the Nazi's and they asked the British if it would be ok to have a homeland in Palestine. They wanted somewhere where they could be safe and never persecuted again. The British said "sure, no problem, you can have Palestine" so the Jews moved in. The Palestinians said "WTF?" and the Jews said "Sorry, it's ours now. Out."

This contains so many inaccuracies. So much misinformation.

Revitalifeclinic · 01/11/2023 05:45

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Fleetheart · 01/11/2023 05:35

And this thread shows how even the views about how the conflict arose are not agreed upon by anyone……

StarTrek6 · 01/11/2023 05:30

2religious groups -neither group following the laws of that religion

SinnerBoy · 01/11/2023 05:26

Peskysquirrel · Yesterday 10:42

Jews did not first "move in" to Palestine after WW2. They have lived in the region for thousands of years.

I don't think that anybody has said that no Jewish people lived there before Israel came into being. They numbered about 100,000 I'm the early 40s and were mostly concentrated around Jerusalem.

And have you never heard of the 1917 Balfour Declaration?

The one which said that, whilst it was considered desirable for there to be a Jewish homeland, that it couldn't be at the expense of the indigenous population? That Balfour declaration?

In any case, why should the Palestinians pay the price for the Nazi's atrocities?

YireosDodeAver · 01/11/2023 05:21

The strip of fertile land at the eastern edge of the Mediterranean Sea has been the most desirable bit of land in the region for so many thousands of years that the start of the conflict dates to myths and legends from before reliable histories were ever written. Throughout all recorded millenia the land has very rarely been able to exist as an independent nation for more than a few decades, it's generally part of a wider global empire. It is currently in dispute between the US dominated western hegemony and the middle eastern islamist hegemony. Neither side will ever give up - historically, no empire ever gave up its claim, the cease of any previous claim only came about with the decline and fall of the empire in question.

auberginefortea · 01/11/2023 05:11

PaminaMozart · 31/10/2023 23:41

have you never heard of the 1917 Balfour Declaration?

most people haven't.
But Palestine wasn't Balfour's to give away, was it...

It kind of was - or was soon to be so

auberginefortea · 01/11/2023 01:42

JustMaggie · 31/10/2023 09:11

Jews suffered terribly at the hands of the Nazi's and they asked the British if it would be ok to have a homeland in Palestine. They wanted somewhere where they could be safe and never persecuted again. The British said "sure, no problem, you can have Palestine" so the Jews moved in. The Palestinians said "WTF?" and the Jews said "Sorry, it's ours now. Out."

I'm kind of impressed at how wrong this is. To be honest, I don't think it can be summarised in a paragraph.

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