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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

This much we can agree on!

105 replies

HeidiInTheBigCity · 30/10/2023 19:05

Another attempt at - to unashamedly quote Tracy Chapman: "if not now, then WHEN?"

Can we please have a thread about things we can all actually subscribe to? Respectful disagreements welcome! Bold proposals welcome!

I shall start:

  1. All children are innocent and inherently deserve our compassion, our advocacy, our voices - whoever and whereever they are - on the grounds that they are too young to be punished for whatever their parents or grandparents have done!
  2. Ordinary people - regardless of their political opinions - must not be punished for the actions of their leaders unless they have demonstrably and personally engaged in activity that supports the same (a.k.a. "I would prefer not to be punished for what Rishi says and does!").
  3. Antisemitism is categorically wrong!
  4. Islamophobia is categorically wrong"
  5. Anti-Palestinianism is categorically wrong!
OP posts:
Ruminate2much · 31/10/2023 06:06

Animals are innocent, and it's heartbreaking that they are often victims of human wars 😔

Noicant · 31/10/2023 04:07

A 2 state solution is the only path to peace where both countries can feel secure and safe.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 03:13

Finlesswonder · 30/10/2023 23:37

You don't make peace treaties with terrorists?

Sorry this is the one I can't agree. Both Nelson Mandela and Daniel Ortega went on to democratically lead their countries after having been called terrorists by many people. Many people called terrorists have done less wrong than the armies and police forces in the countries they were from.

All the others I think I can get behind.

Mine is: Complicated geopolitical and historical conflicts with roots hundreds (thousands) of years in the making can't be reduced to 'goodies' and 'baddies'. Everyone who fights has a reason to fight that makes sense to them. Talking about those reasons ISN'T excusing them.

SeeReality · 31/10/2023 02:22

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

SeeReality · 31/10/2023 00:26

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

Notalldogs23 · 31/10/2023 00:26

We need to accept that hatred can be bred in the bone, so demilitarised zones are necessary, and a fact, in Korea and Cyprus for example, and are needed in Israel/Palestine.

SeeReality · 31/10/2023 00:16

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

fixies · 31/10/2023 00:02

This conflict must not be in vain, The international community must pressurise both sides into entering peace talks.The violence must end. No talks=no support

eardefender · 31/10/2023 00:02

It all should, but it isn’t, so whats the point, sorry I am feeling so down the hear shani louk is dead.
if we are shoulding, then should we just ensure we have massive defence budgets, big walls and accept that there will always be humans who want to kill and commit savagery so we should all agree to be willing to fight for civility and be prepared for armed conflict.

eardefender · 30/10/2023 23:59

HeidiInTheBigCity · 30/10/2023 23:44

Entering "maybe not everyone agrees" territory now? Tony Blair did? The South African Apartheid regime eventually did? Both with counterparts previously deemed "terrorists"?

Show quote history

These conflicts were very different, off the top of my head 8 groups who committed terrorism all involved in the good Friday agreement and there still isn’t peace. I don’t remember anything like October 7th ever happening in NI. Not that level of mass savagery.

Lysianthus · 30/10/2023 23:54

My great uncle in a Palestinian nursing home (British passport, Alzheimer's, Palestinian wife since deceased) should be able to die quietly and not be subjected to (another ) war - he lived through WWII.

Original poster
HeidiInTheBigCity · 30/10/2023 23:53

Blankscreen · 30/10/2023 23:50

People should be able to attend music festival without being ambushed and murdered

100% agreed ... and also: farmers should be able to harvest their crops without being ambushed and murdered, too!

OP posts:
Blankscreen · 30/10/2023 23:50

People should be able to attend music festival without being ambushed and murdered

Original poster
HeidiInTheBigCity · 30/10/2023 23:44

Finlesswonder · 30/10/2023 23:37

You don't make peace treaties with terrorists?

Entering "maybe not everyone agrees" territory now? Tony Blair did? The South African Apartheid regime eventually did? Both with counterparts previously deemed "terrorists"?

OP posts:
Finlesswonder · 30/10/2023 23:37

You don't make peace treaties with terrorists?

Original poster
HeidiInTheBigCity · 30/10/2023 23:34

ssd · 30/10/2023 23:03

Killing thousands of children is wrong. Heart breakingly wrong. I read there are at least 1000 more under the rubble. We will never know the true figures, we won't be allowed to know.

OK, accepted, so long as also:

Killing even just ONE SINGLE child is wrong! Including if the child belongs to the "stronger" even "oppressive" side.

Children must just never, ever, ever, EVER be made to pay for what we adults have done!

OP posts:
ssd · 30/10/2023 23:03

Killing thousands of children is wrong. Heart breakingly wrong. I read there are at least 1000 more under the rubble. We will never know the true figures, we won't be allowed to know.

Pinkpinkpink15 · 30/10/2023 22:25

Good grief

A dozen posts in and I largely agree still.

i think I'll quit while I'm ahead!

minou123 · 30/10/2023 22:19

One more thing maybe we can all agree on:

We all hope and wish/pray for this conflict to be ended peacefully - where no more lives are lost.

Original poster
HeidiInTheBigCity · 30/10/2023 22:13

This is all great! Let us keep on going!

Another one:

Palestinian lives matter as much as Israeli lives matter as much as Cuban lives matter as much as British lives!

And "a life" in a meaningful sense means something more than "simply not being in a state that a trained physicial will diagnose as "clinically dead"" - a human life deserves a sense of meaning in addition to "air to breathe and a pulse"!

OP posts:
minou123 · 30/10/2023 22:01

The conflict is complex and has a long history.

There are a lot of nuances to the conflict and this can sometimes stop people from listening to each other.

Original poster
HeidiInTheBigCity · 30/10/2023 21:50

Reallifelurker · 30/10/2023 20:04

That Hamas should be removed from Gaza because they are no more than a bunch of terrorists.

Bibi should probably sling his hook too

I can get behind this on the condition that the "probably" should be removed from the part on Bibi and replaced it with a "definitely"!

I have my reasons for this but: I opened the thread with something like "this much ought to be uncontroversial" - so I am deliberately NOT going to embark on a lengthy, source heavy post on "why he needs to go".

OP posts:
Reallifelurker · 30/10/2023 20:04

That Hamas should be removed from Gaza because they are no more than a bunch of terrorists.

Bibi should probably sling his hook too

ssd · 30/10/2023 20:02

A peaceful pro Palestinian march is not a hate march Suella.

MissyB1 · 30/10/2023 19:59

International laws should be respected by all Countries.