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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

This much we can agree on!

105 replies

HeidiInTheBigCity · 30/10/2023 19:05

Another attempt at - to unashamedly quote Tracy Chapman: "if not now, then WHEN?"

Can we please have a thread about things we can all actually subscribe to? Respectful disagreements welcome! Bold proposals welcome!

I shall start:

  1. All children are innocent and inherently deserve our compassion, our advocacy, our voices - whoever and whereever they are - on the grounds that they are too young to be punished for whatever their parents or grandparents have done!
  2. Ordinary people - regardless of their political opinions - must not be punished for the actions of their leaders unless they have demonstrably and personally engaged in activity that supports the same (a.k.a. "I would prefer not to be punished for what Rishi says and does!").
  3. Antisemitism is categorically wrong!
  4. Islamophobia is categorically wrong"
  5. Anti-Palestinianism is categorically wrong!
OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 02/11/2023 00:50

I have one. When you use dehumanising language, you become less empathetic.

Collateral damage
Human shield
Gazans
Causalities

Children. As loved and cared for and wanted and cherished as the ones asleep in my house. And the mums and dads sniffed their heads and kissed their feet and worried and tucked them in. Just as many times as I have.

ssd · 01/11/2023 23:37

Ah ok. I don't agree with you though. I don't think you can be a good person and let your values be compromised so much that you believe an attack on 1400 people justifies killing 8000 on the other side. And keep adding to the 8000.

Original poster
HeidiInTheBigCity · 01/11/2023 09:57

ssd · 01/11/2023 08:45

How does betraying your own values make you a good person op?

Show quote history

Bad phrasing on my part: What I meant was "you are probably actually a good person [do not let yourself be compromised, stick to your values, not ideology]".

OP posts:
ssd · 01/11/2023 08:45

HeidiInTheBigCity · 31/10/2023 19:27

I am the OP!

I just want to say THANK YOU, Mumsnetters! We - so far, fingers crossed! - seem to have managed a thread without a single deletion! There may have been some attempts to derail, and posters have met the challenge with "ignore" and have continued to post stuff ...

I agree with some 85-90% of it all - and exactly 0%, trolls aside, have been "personally offensive" to me!

Please keep it coming!

Here is mine:

"If you find yourself mentally - or, worse, openly - excusing actions that you would find unfathomable in any other context: you might be betraying your own values in favour of some ideology - you are probably a good person!"

Edited

How does betraying your own values make you a good person op?

ssd · 01/11/2023 08:44

Don't believe everything you are told here in the UK. Our government is in the USAs pocket. The USA are the biggest supporters of Israel. Money runs the world. Go figure.

SeeReality · 01/11/2023 08:36

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

Mammillaria · 01/11/2023 06:35

War is a gendered phenomenon.

Yes, many fighters and leaders are female, but the overwhelming percentage of conflicts are driven by men and the overwhelming percentage of atrocities in conflict are perpetrated by men.

NAMALT, but it there is a definite link between being male/masculinity and war.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/11/2023 00:12

littleburn · 31/10/2023 19:41

Rape as a tool of war/resistance is never, ever acceptable and should never be contextualised.

This in spades.

It is possible to reduce the incidence of rape in conflict. One of the reasons given by women for joining the Long March was that Mao's forces at the time were known for not raping their female compatriots. Armed forces around the world can't seem to not rape their sisters in arms, or random civilians, never mind enemy combatants.

littleburn · 31/10/2023 19:41

Rape as a tool of war/resistance is never, ever acceptable and should never be contextualised.

Original poster
HeidiInTheBigCity · 31/10/2023 19:27

I am the OP!

I just want to say THANK YOU, Mumsnetters! We - so far, fingers crossed! - seem to have managed a thread without a single deletion! There may have been some attempts to derail, and posters have met the challenge with "ignore" and have continued to post stuff ...

I agree with some 85-90% of it all - and exactly 0%, trolls aside, have been "personally offensive" to me!

Please keep it coming!

Here is mine:

"If you find yourself mentally - or, worse, openly - excusing actions that you would find unfathomable in any other context: you might be betraying your own values in favour of some ideology - you are probably a good person!"

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 31/10/2023 16:02

International law is just that. International. And should be adhered to.

HappierTimesAhead · 31/10/2023 15:19

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request

You have expressed it so well, thank you

ssd · 31/10/2023 15:19

That some posters have no shame.

HappierTimesAhead · 31/10/2023 15:16

Goodornot · 31/10/2023 07:34

Just this one? Not the 30+ others in the world? Just this war you want stopped?

I genuinely don't understand the obsession right now. War rages across the world most of the time and none of you gave a shit until this one.

None of you give a shit about any other conflict or child deaths but this war.

Edited
Show quote history

You have no idea what we give a shit about but clearly you think you have a right to tell us. Imagine telling people who are horrified at footage of little children with their limbs blown apart that we are 'obsessed'. Many of us have protested against various wars, we have marched, we have written to MP's, joined campagin groups. We are talking about this because IT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. AS WE SPEAK. WE WANT IT TO STOP. If you don't understand that then I wonder where your empathy has gone.

ketchup07070 · 31/10/2023 14:46

That older generations should not send their young to war, but work for peace.

SeeReality · 31/10/2023 14:44

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

Iloveshoes123 · 31/10/2023 14:42

Is someone seriously suggesting these guys deserve respect, they can't even pass a motion condemning a terrorist attack.

unwatch.org/un-general-assembly-rejects-motion-to-condemn-hamas-calls-for-ceasefire/

Iloveshoes123 · 31/10/2023 14:36

ssd · 30/10/2023 19:46

The UN deserves respect.

Don't agree, they are a joke and a disgrace.

WilmaWonka · 31/10/2023 14:34

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 14:09

Can we also all agree to ignore posters trying to derail the thread? And stick to the spirit it's intended for. Leave the people trying to derail to the hundreds of other threads they could post on.

You mean ignore anything that doesn’t fit your narrative?

minou123 · 31/10/2023 14:21

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 14:09

Can we also all agree to ignore posters trying to derail the thread? And stick to the spirit it's intended for. Leave the people trying to derail to the hundreds of other threads they could post on.

Agree 100%

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 14:09

Can we also all agree to ignore posters trying to derail the thread? And stick to the spirit it's intended for. Leave the people trying to derail to the hundreds of other threads they could post on.

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 14:06

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request

I would go a bit further... But yes, agreed.

WilmaWonka · 31/10/2023 14:05

Can we agree that the reason more children may have died in Gaza in the last 3 weeks (number unverified other than by their terrorist government which has given their figures to Save the Children) than other conflicts is because their own government use them as human shields and are preventing their own civilians leaving known target sites?

Can anyone list any other wars in which this has happened?

If anyone believes the Palestinian government is actively protecting its citizens, as any other government would do after starting a war, can they please explain how they are doing this/have done this considering their neighbours do not place their military bases in schools and hospitals and under Israeli law every house has to be built with a bomb shelter? Wonder why that is?

Can anyone explain why they believe anything a terrorist government says, a government which has videoed themselves cheering while murdering men, women and children, including hacking off a civilians head with a garden hoe, and uploading it to social media.

Can we agree on what Israel could have done to prevent the Palestinian government using their civilians as canon fodder, and considering their military capabilities and the fact they could wipe out Gaza in a day, if their military aim is to commit genocide, why is this war still ongoing 3 weeks later?

SeeReality · 31/10/2023 13:32

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request