Page 7 | "But Israel gave them prime waterfront land!". A life in Gaza thread.

feralunderclass · 2023-10-30T15:44:31+00:00

"But Israel gave them prime waterfront land, and they still wouldn't accept a two state solution". A poster said this on another thread and I literally can't get this out of my head. It's probably the best (and worst) case of gaslighting hasbara I have seen on any of the threads. Just incase anyone has the notion that Gazans were reclining on their sunloungers, admiring the sea views from their luxury penthouse apartments, this is a thread to discuss life in Gaza pre 7/10. Some facts: [[https://www.un.org/unispal/humanitarian-situation-in-the-gaza-strip-fast-facts-ocha-factsheet/# Gaza fact sheet]]

Reallifelurker · 01/11/2023 11:40

That's already happened.

So? would you like to convert this thread into a space to complain about that?

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 11:27

usernamealreadytaken · 01/11/2023 11:09

The UK gets quite a substantial amount of electricity from France and Norway, and if they turned off our supply would you blame them or our own government for not providing our energy security? But, but, Israel.

We're under fairly frequent attack in the UK from Muslim extremists (other terror organisations are available, but let's stick to one for this conversation); do we blame the country they come from, or do we expect our government and security services to keep us safe? But, but, Israel.

Allied forces killed hundreds of thousands of innocent German civilians during WWII; were we the baddies?

There are fewer Jewish people alive on the planet now than there were before 1939. Never again.

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Straightforward question - do you condemn war crimes?

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 11:15

Syndulla · 01/11/2023 11:05

One side is a failed terrorist state led by people who consider the other side animals whose lives are worthless.

The other side is an apartheid state led by people who consider the other side animals whose lives are worthless.

I keep questioning why, when Israel's narrative is that all of this is about destroying Hamas, they are NOT targeting the leadership living lives of luxury in Qatar and Iran.

Gaza is an easy target, a punching bag to quell their desire for revenge and prop up Netanyahu's deeply unpopular government. To actually address the problem with Hamas would be to target those other countries.

it would also mean they couldn't take the Palestinian land after, wouldn't it?

usernamealreadytaken · 01/11/2023 11:09

feralunderclass · 01/11/2023 09:26

This is horribly minimising, as well as factually incorrect. There are posters on here who will still claim "But Hamas!" even when Israel declares they've killed them all. It serves as a deflective shield to minimize the horrific treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli government, and also rampant settlers trying to take the law into their own hands. This oppression is happening across the OPT, as recorded by the UN, OHCRC and many Israeli and foreign human rights organizations.

Show quote history

The UK gets quite a substantial amount of electricity from France and Norway, and if they turned off our supply would you blame them or our own government for not providing our energy security? But, but, Israel.

We're under fairly frequent attack in the UK from Muslim extremists (other terror organisations are available, but let's stick to one for this conversation); do we blame the country they come from, or do we expect our government and security services to keep us safe? But, but, Israel.

Allied forces killed hundreds of thousands of innocent German civilians during WWII; were we the baddies?

There are fewer Jewish people alive on the planet now than there were before 1939. Never again.

Syndulla · 01/11/2023 11:05

One side is a failed terrorist state led by people who consider the other side animals whose lives are worthless.

The other side is an apartheid state led by people who consider the other side animals whose lives are worthless.

I keep questioning why, when Israel's narrative is that all of this is about destroying Hamas, they are NOT targeting the leadership living lives of luxury in Qatar and Iran.

Gaza is an easy target, a punching bag to quell their desire for revenge and prop up Netanyahu's deeply unpopular government. To actually address the problem with Hamas would be to target those other countries.

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 11:00

But the question of whether Israel has the right to exist or not is central to the whole issue and in particular the horrendous conditions on the Gaza Strip. This is the issue behind the whole conflict.

starfleet · 01/11/2023 10:50

That people cannot voice any criticism against Israel without condemning Hamas first is tiring. Yes, we all condemn Hamas.

The zionist undertones in a lot of these posts regarding this conflict are unnerving. The word antisemitic is thrown around like confetti.

It is not antisemitic to want Israel to stop committing genocide, to stop bombing hospitals and refugee camps, to stop them cutting out comms, to stop with holding water and electricity, to stop them slaughtering children and babies in their 100s.....to stop ethnic cleansing. It's really not.

calyrex · 01/11/2023 10:45

Reallifelurker · 01/11/2023 10:42

What do you think of the position that the State of Israel has no right to exist

What does that have to do with this thread? Should we all pile on to the antisemitic placard thread and start demanding whether they think the bombing of a refugee camp for the sole purpose of killing one man was a clever move?
should we?

Just give it a rest

That's already happened.

Reallifelurker · 01/11/2023 10:42

What do you think of the position that the State of Israel has no right to exist

What does that have to do with this thread? Should we all pile on to the antisemitic placard thread and start demanding whether they think the bombing of a refugee camp for the sole purpose of killing one man was a clever move?
should we?

Just give it a rest

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 10:28

I totally agree re the settlers but the rest is a response to decades of aggressive and constant attacks.

What do you think of the position that the State of Israel has no right to exist?

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 10:20

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:58

@gratedbluecheese All the Palestinians have to do is to stop attacking Israel and this will happen.

Once again, the aim of Hamas, The Palestinian Authority and Iran and other supporters is to eradicate the State of Israel and murder all Jews. The State of Israel seeks to defend itself against this.

Please can you give details of one attack by Israel that wasn't preceded by a rocket/ terrorist / suicide bombing.

Maybe if Israeli govt gave Palestinians human rights and stopped stealing their land in the West Bank and all the other things you conveniently forget about, Palestinians might not be so upset. No I do not condone Hamas or any of their actions, but if you forcibly steal land, imprison millions, treat people as second class citizens, torture and imprison their children etc people are going to get pissed off and react (no I do not condone Hamas). Do you not understand this?

Original poster

feralunderclass · 01/11/2023 10:13

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:58

@gratedbluecheese All the Palestinians have to do is to stop attacking Israel and this will happen.

Once again, the aim of Hamas, The Palestinian Authority and Iran and other supporters is to eradicate the State of Israel and murder all Jews. The State of Israel seeks to defend itself against this.

Please can you give details of one attack by Israel that wasn't preceded by a rocket/ terrorist / suicide bombing.

Of course it will 🙄. Because of Hamas, Israel detains 800 children every year. Rapes women in administrative detention, sodomizes men. Imprisons them with no legal rights or charges. Murders women, children and men. Hundreds die of "natural causes" in prisons. Children are denied medical permits. Calorie rationing is inflicted upon them. 50% of children have chronic PTSD. Palestinians are subjected to a discriminatory criminal justice service. Settlers can torture and murder them with impunity. Houses are destroyed, land confiscated, farms set on fire, olive trees hundreds of years old ripped up. Sewage pumped (illegally) into the sea where Palestinians fish. Boats destroyed.

I cannot wait until Israel destroy Hamas, as they've promised, and then see the Palestinians live a free life, with equal rights and resources to Israelis,free from oppression, harm and murder.

OP posts:

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:58

@gratedbluecheese All the Palestinians have to do is to stop attacking Israel and this will happen.

Once again, the aim of Hamas, The Palestinian Authority and Iran and other supporters is to eradicate the State of Israel and murder all Jews. The State of Israel seeks to defend itself against this.

Please can you give details of one attack by Israel that wasn't preceded by a rocket/ terrorist / suicide bombing.

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:52

There will be no solution to this conflict until Israeli govt abandon their murdering of innocent Palestinians and giving them back their human rights.

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:48

German casualties in WWII were a multiple of British deaths. Does that mean Britain was wrong to defeat them?

There will be no solution to this conflict until Hamas, Iran, The Palestinian Authority etc abandon their commitment to murdering Jews.

Original poster

feralunderclass · 01/11/2023 09:48

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:25

https://wearenotnumbers.org/for-gazas-children-sleep-brings-only-nightmares/

Thanks for sharing this, it's really important to remember that these "Gazans" are individual people, with hopes, dreams, fears like the rest of us. Last night by chance I came across Miko Peled, an Israeli American activist. He grew up in Jerusalem in a very pro Zionist household (his grandfather signed Israel's Declaration of Independence) but after his niece was killed in a suicide attack he changed stance and now speaks up for Palestinians. Anyway, he was saying that as a child he used to holiday several miles from Gaza every summer, and it never occurred to him once that these 'animals' had a culture, could experience joy, or even went to school. He went into OPT as an adult and said how shocked he was to learn that Palestinians had parties, enjoyed music, and had a culture. His mind was literally blown when he discovered the 'animals' in Gaza even had a university.

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gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:44

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:39

@feralunderclass who was the initial aggressor in the current conflict? Do you think that Israel would now be bombing Gaza if they hadn't suffered the hideous slaughter, torture, rape and kidnap of their own citizens? The loss of life on October 7 in Israel was equivalent to 6,000 Britons in terms of population.

I do not condone the actions of Hamas, but can I just ask what you think about this graph showing the number of Palestinian and Israeli deaths and injuries prior to these recent events (2008-2020)? Can you let me know your thoughts on the massive discrepancy between Israel vs Palestine deaths in the figures?

https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

By the way, I absolutely abhor the Hamas attacks.

Infographic: The Human Cost Of The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

This chart shows Israeli & Palestinian deaths/injuries documented by the UN in Gaza and the West Bank.

https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:39

@feralunderclass who was the initial aggressor in the current conflict? Do you think that Israel would now be bombing Gaza if they hadn't suffered the hideous slaughter, torture, rape and kidnap of their own citizens? The loss of life on October 7 in Israel was equivalent to 6,000 Britons in terms of population.

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:36

People still trotting out the same old "but Hamas" in the face of the illegal war crimes and slaughter by the Israeli govt have some serious inward looking to do.

And no I do not condone Hamas.

Original poster

feralunderclass · 01/11/2023 09:36

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:31

This is not a dispute about land. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority want to eradicate the State of Israel and murder all Jews.

Who is eradicating who?

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gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:34

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:31

This is not a dispute about land. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority want to eradicate the State of Israel and murder all Jews.

It's looking increasingly like Israeli govt want to murder all Gazans, let's face it.

starfleet · 01/11/2023 09:33

@Hippyhippybake and vice versa........

gratedbluecheese · 01/11/2023 09:32

"But Hamas" is used as justification for any heinous action the Israeli govt wants to take, all the documented war crimes going against the Geneva convention, thousands of innocent families children bombed, safe routes bombed, collective punishment of millions, deprivation of food and water and aid to 2.2million people... 60+ percent of the population homeless now without protection... no escape routes.... the list goes on.

They can do whatever the fuck they like and say "but Hamas" after and pretend to justify it, even when it goes counter to every international legal rule of war.

No wonder even countries with a notoriously bad human rights record like Chile, Bolivia et al are withdrawing their diplomats in recognition of how bad it is. The irony, but also, makes you think, doesn't it.

Caveat: I do not condone Hamas.

Hippyhippybake · 01/11/2023 09:31

This is not a dispute about land. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority want to eradicate the State of Israel and murder all Jews.

Original poster

feralunderclass · 01/11/2023 09:26

usernamealreadytaken · 01/11/2023 08:40

Hamas has plenty of rockets, food, water and electricity while their citizens don't. If you don't see that the Gazan government is repressing its own people far more than any other player, then you have a special kind of view of the world.

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This is horribly minimising, as well as factually incorrect. There are posters on here who will still claim "But Hamas!" even when Israel declares they've killed them all. It serves as a deflective shield to minimize the horrific treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli government, and also rampant settlers trying to take the law into their own hands. This oppression is happening across the OPT, as recorded by the UN, OHCRC and many Israeli and foreign human rights organizations.

OP posts: