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Conflict in the Middle East

What was Hamas Strategy here?

55 replies

eardefender · 29/10/2023 13:33

I am assuming that Hamas are not stupid.

I came across a journalist called Haviv Rettig Ur. A political correspondent for the Times of Israel.

He made an interesting point (excuse my clumsy paraphrasing here) that due to the terror attacks the left in Israel has now abandoned a path to a two state solution (although i am aware that Hamas has always rejected this). His reasoning was that the attacks had woken the left to the prospect of having another terrorist run state in the west bank as Gaza became. That Israelis now thought that they had conceded ground in the north and that had led to a vacuum which had been filled by Hezbollah. They then conceded ground in Gaza when they pulled out in 2005 and this vacuum was filled by Hamas.
They now look to the West Bank which is much larger than Gaza and has direct access to fire rockets and can harm Israelis from a high vantage point over the whole of Israel. Therefore many are pulling back from wanting to entertain the idea of two states.

So Hamas has united Israel, where before there was division, Possibly killed Israeli support for a two state solution on the grounds of Israeli safety.

He also said there was trade with Israel and Gaza, some manufacturing would be done in Gaza, people in Gaza worked in Israel.

Now the border will be closed. I find this so sad, no more trade or Jobs with Gaza for Gazans. Israel understandably will not want to open that border again as it is clearly unsafe to do so and a huge security risk.

So Garzans have lost jobs and income, electricity and water from Israel. the north is flattened. They now will have to rely on foreign aid through the Egyptian crossing only. Do Egypt want their country to be the only crossing to Gaza and all that entails. I don't think so.

That Hamas stockpiled fuel etc for themselves shows that they knew there would be a closure of the border and utilities would be turned off.

Did they think this would ignite sympathetic Islamic countries to rise up against Israel and declare war. If so then that hasn't happened. Were they expecting more help from those they perceive as their allies. Egypt and Jordan have apparently said no to any Palestinian refugees (i am not blaming them for that, they don't want Hamas in their countries). The support for Hamas has been noise and talk but not perhaps the military support they were hoping for.

Can anyone provide insight and analysis as to what it is that Hamas wanted to happen from this attack. I cannot see how it has benefited them or their cause. The consequences are horrific.

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JoeyVimsanteThePoet · 19/11/2023 22:25

I beg for peace between Israel and Palestine.
I also want peace between Ukraine and Russia. We need peace and human rights all over Earth.

thatone · 19/11/2023 22:00

They knew that there would be a very strong response from Israel so they obviously don't care about Palestinian lives.

Perhaps they thought Israel would negotiate for the release of the hostages.

Ohdearanotheryear · 19/11/2023 21:30

Sussurations · 19/11/2023 14:10

@RedToothBrush thanks for that interesting post. Soon after the Oct 7 attack there was a lot of talK about Israel’s ill-preparedness. it makes sense that the attack was more ‘successful’ than expected.

The people of Palestine are pawns/collateral damage to Hamas and Iran. Literal human shields to Hamas. It is sad that those marching for Palestine in comfortable western democracies are, in general, so focused on condemning Israel and only weakly, belatedly - or not at all - demanding the release of the hostages and a ceasefire from Hamas and Hezbollah.

If part of the intention behind the attacks was to foment distrust and division in the West they’ve been very successful.

This

upinaballoon · 19/11/2023 14:57

daytriptovulcan · 19/11/2023 14:48

Isn't the Belfour Declaration to blame for the mess?

Have you read every word of the Balfour Declaration? I haven't but on another thread, and I'm sorry but I can't tell you which one, a poster quoted a piece from the Declaration and it was interesting. I thought I would read the Declaration, but it was only yesterday that the poster put it up and I haven't done so yet.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 19/11/2023 14:48

They wanted to get back on the word agenda. They were pretty much ignored for a while. Sadly the leadership seem to care very little for human lives, and there seem to be some brainwashed people who are in social media crowing about how they want their children to become martyrs. So there does seem to be a cult like attitude (in some) which is very dangerous.

Yea they knew Israel wound go Old Testament on them (which is what they would have done had the roles been reserved). It was planned to get the worlds attention and support.

daytriptovulcan · 19/11/2023 14:48

BorgQueen · 19/11/2023 14:22

I hope ( but doubt) that Gaza won’t get a penny of Western aid.
Let the billionaire backers of Hamas and the wealth of the Arab oil countries sort out the mess of their making.

Isn't the Belfour Declaration to blame for the mess?

TheWayTheLightFalls · 19/11/2023 14:41

stop the process by which Saudi Arabia was going to recognise Israel

This imo.

Plus, you know, someone else wanted attention away from another ongoing war.

Saschka · 19/11/2023 14:23

pickledandpuzzled · 29/10/2023 15:19

This is interesting, about the young population and conditions there! There’s so much that doesn’t make sense about this situation.

https://medium.com/@nocapsherlock/why-does-gaza-have-a-low-median-age-ef67b2fdf11f

Oh I haven’t heard people claiming the low median age is due to all Gazans being killed young by Israel before - every piece I’ve heard has been a “Great Replacement” style piece bemoaning all these terrible Muslims breeding so fast and threatening Israel with their increasing numbers.

Both arguments are ridiculous for different reasons.

BorgQueen · 19/11/2023 14:22

I hope ( but doubt) that Gaza won’t get a penny of Western aid.
Let the billionaire backers of Hamas and the wealth of the Arab oil countries sort out the mess of their making.

mixgoal · 19/11/2023 14:18

Gruntsandgroans · 31/10/2023 15:54

I agree. I think the only fair solution at this stage is to cut Israel in half and give half each. No bulldozing of infrastructure, no hoarding of resources etc. If you are on the wrong side you just get up and walk out of you home and move to the other side.

Uh huh. Well good luck with that.

Sussurations · 19/11/2023 14:10

@RedToothBrush thanks for that interesting post. Soon after the Oct 7 attack there was a lot of talK about Israel’s ill-preparedness. it makes sense that the attack was more ‘successful’ than expected.

The people of Palestine are pawns/collateral damage to Hamas and Iran. Literal human shields to Hamas. It is sad that those marching for Palestine in comfortable western democracies are, in general, so focused on condemning Israel and only weakly, belatedly - or not at all - demanding the release of the hostages and a ceasefire from Hamas and Hezbollah.

If part of the intention behind the attacks was to foment distrust and division in the West they’ve been very successful.

daytriptovulcan · 19/11/2023 14:07

In the most dreadful way, the actions of Hamas, and then of the Israeli military have put the urgent need for a Palestinian state back on the agenda, at least on the international stage.
This is probably an unintended consequence for both. And maybe both of them will successfully resist this imperative.
Basically it's the only way Israelis will get to live in peace, and Palestinians to live with dignity.
I think this is the opposite conclusion your journalist has come to.

CampsieGlamper · 19/11/2023 13:54

Who occupied the land inhabited by Jewish people before islamic colonisation after 665(ish)?

Gruntsandgroans · 31/10/2023 15:59

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Gruntsandgroans · 31/10/2023 15:54

SomeCatFromJapan · 29/10/2023 21:33

But presumably your attitude wouldn’t be “so what?” if all that happened to Israel?

I'm not "so what", I think that people need to prioritise peace and coexistence over historical grievances that cause misery and bloodshed.

I agree. I think the only fair solution at this stage is to cut Israel in half and give half each. No bulldozing of infrastructure, no hoarding of resources etc. If you are on the wrong side you just get up and walk out of you home and move to the other side.

Ohdearanotheryear · 31/10/2023 11:08

I agree with quite a bit in your opening post. However much ignorance and sympathy shown over why Hamas did what they did on mn. People who Hamas would gladly slaughter have rushed in with whataboutery, no wonder remarks, and general thinly veiled or not so in some cases hatred for Israel and/or Jewish people.

The only truly democracy in the middle East attacked by people who have the freedom and luxury not to worry about being female, gay, outspoken etc in the West. An awful lot of fake news spreading as well.

No I'm not going to share links to the sentiments I've seen because if you haven't see it then you are blind or have the same inbeded hatred.

TheABC · 31/10/2023 09:45

Judging by the latest reports, it doesn't really matter what Hamas wanted now. The IDF have gone into Northern Gaza mob-handed and the casualties will be enormous. There definitely seems to be an element of "fuck it, the world thinks we're evil anyway and the Palestinians will always attack us, so we may as well clear house as best we can. We've got nothing to lose."

It looks like Hamas' hostages are now collateral damage, as is everyone trapped in the enclave. :-(

Efacsen · 31/10/2023 01:41

;

LeavesOnTrees · 30/10/2023 08:21

RedToothBrush
Your post was very interesting, thank you.

1dayatatime · 29/10/2023 21:41

@Namedmyself

"Israel never had or had a right to start this war. They are the occupiers and occupiers have no land. That is international law- to all of you in denial- you won’t understand it unless it happens to you. "

+++

Could you clarify what land you are referring to that Israel occupies: the land in which the state of Israel sits, the West Bank or Gaza or all of the above?

Reallifelurker · 29/10/2023 21:34

Hamas raided Israel, murdered and kidnapped people. What should have happened next?

If your still talking about the Free Palestine march’s then the answer would be anything that stops a humanitarian crisis unfolding in Gaza.

One would hope Israel can actually get rid of Hamas and aren’t just trying to bomb them into temporary submission.

SomeCatFromJapan · 29/10/2023 21:33

But presumably your attitude wouldn’t be “so what?” if all that happened to Israel?

I'm not "so what", I think that people need to prioritise peace and coexistence over historical grievances that cause misery and bloodshed.

Reallifelurker · 29/10/2023 21:31

And you know what? Borders shift and are redrawn. Wars are fought, territories won and lost, people displaced

But presumably your attitude wouldn’t be “so what?” if all that happened to Israel?

SomeCatFromJapan · 29/10/2023 21:29

And you know what? Borders shift and are redrawn. Wars are fought, territories won and lost, people displaced.

We are where we are now, is the past really worth having a shit present for?

pickledandpuzzled · 29/10/2023 21:28

@Namedmyself but what does that look like? Right now, practically?

Hamas raided Israel, murdered and kidnapped people. What should have happened next?

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