The double standards of free speech on Palestine amid Israel’s war on Gaza

The Saudis, like Russia are unassailable.

@SolomonEdGrundy .

Of course civilian casualties are a concern but if Saudi Arabia for instance killed the same number of civilians would we have the same marches? Have we had marches about Assad's campaign in Aleppo including the use of chemical weapons?

@SolomonEdGrundy .

It is the fact there have been multiple conflicts in the middle East but it is interesting this particular one has caused more concern than others?

Also when a ceasefire is being saught I presume this a ceasefire for Israel only because I very much doubt Hamas are willing to abide by one. A ceasefire call I think for many is a call for Israel to halt hostilities and let Hamas win by continuing to exist which is quite frankly unacceptable. So many placards are implicitly wanting a reduction in land size of Israel or a cease in hostilities which only benefits terror.

Where are the placards demanding the release of hostages? Where are the placards demanding Egypt steps up to the plate with humanitarian assistance including receiving more sick and wounded? Where are the placards for the displaced Israelis having to move from border towns? Where are the placards remembering the victims of October 7th?

Where are the protests about Saudi or is it only Israel that is a 'bad actor' in the middle east?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi-led_intervention_in_the_Yemeni_civil_war

>>To say marching for Palestine is antisemitic is laughable when so so many of those taking part are Jewish themselves. Please stop that discourse

agree - there is of course an entire thread on here asserting that from the off.

Agreed

I feel the same. And I'm not going to say anything else because I'm not interested in debating with terrorist sympathisers, but you're definitely not alone here.

To me Remembrance Day is a day that we should remember the dead from war and remember why they got killed and vow to try and avoid future conflict and war - to show that we have learnt from their sacrifices

So marching for peace seems reasonable - the war is very proof that sone have not learned.

anyone who repeats the mantra "the October 7th attacks were horrific Israel must defend itself " as justification for the current violence to me is bordering on justifying the current annihilation of Palestinian civilians which to me is hateful - hate action not hate speech

To argue that asking for the violence against Palestinian civilians to be stopped is anti semetic or supporting hamas is inhumane

I fully support free speech in democratic societies but we have to draw a line between free speech and hate speech. I think unfortunately there are sentiments in both print and through protest that can only be seen as anti Semitic and it is quite right that our police service cracks down on this. We do not want free speech to veil support of a terrorist organisation or general vilification of any race or religion.

Also I think the current marches in our cities as well as being disruptive do not represent the majority view of this country, that being October 7th was a heinous series of unspeakable acts, Israel needs to defend itself to prevent a repeat of such atrocities, and there should be a minimization of civilian casualties in general. The marches are not being attended by any main steam political leaders so I think they give an artificial impression of the concern over a conflict at the end of the day is a foreign one.

Do we have to fill our cities up at weekends with large marches where the placards and chants are on the borderline of hate speech. Does this make the Jewish community feel any safer when they are already suffering from staggering levels of hate incidents? Does this represent Britain?

Also would it be respectful as British citizens to call off marches in London on remembrance day?. Perhaps the protesters could join the crowds in Whitehall and silently pay respects for those that died to protect our country's freedoms including free speech?

There is more that joins us than divided us as a society and we shouldn't take advantage of liberal attitude to free speech to engender hatred for any community.

I'm a libertarian but I also accept that freedom of speech comes with caveats. It's the age old analogy that yes, I should have the right to say what I want but if I go into a busy shop and start yelling 'bomb', I'm likely to be charged with a public order offence.

When it comes to marches and protests, the government has to weigh up the potential harm it might cause. If the National Front somehow gathered a million people to march through central London, hope it would be stopped, not on the grounds of free speech but on the grounds of the deep distress, harm and possible violence this would cause to ethnic communities.

Unfortunately while there's undoubtedly a lot of well-intentioned, principled people on these most recent protests, from what I've seen, a lot don't seem to know what it is they're really supporting. The casual way some sing 'from the river to the sea', not knowing what that offensive chant actually means or how some are waving Hamas flags (not Palestinian ones) or the fact that Palestine and many of its neighbours have some of the most horrific records on human rights plus archaic laws on LGBT+ and women's rights. Personally I'd like to see a march that called ALL leaders to account, not just Israel.

And in the middle of that will be a lot of trouble makers who are there to cause anarchy and inflame tensions among an already deeply frightened Jewish community.

So yes, the protestors have an absolute right to protest but if the collective action is going to cause widespread fear and disruption I think it's right to curb it. I don't see that as locking down free speech. I see that as protecting peace and public order.

Not forgetting the Chinese donors too.

I personally find the whole 'pro' or 'anti' Israel discourse simplistic and crass but I accept that I have bias towards Israel and I understand why the Party line is to oppose calling for a ceasefire. I fully get the short and long-term implications of that. I'm Jewish, of course I do.

However, at this moment in time, there absolutely has to be a ceasefire - the killing has to stop! And firing someone calling for a ceasefire is unconscionable when the death toll in Gaza is upwards of 9000. How many days/weeks until that figure has doubled. It's fucking unbearable. I'm not going to call it genocide because I don't believe it is in the literal sense of the word, and I don't believe Israel's aim is to ethnically cleanse Gaza. But I don't know how you can be privy to all those images of dying and maimed Gazan families and sack someone because they oppose the Party line to call for a ceasefire. It shouldn't be controversial, they're hardly demanding an end to Western support of Israel.

Call me naive, but getting rid of Hamas in Gaza isn't going to get rid of Hamas - many of its leaders are elsewhere, as are a substantial number of their 'foot soldiers'. They will strengthen and recruit outside Gaza where they already have a presence. Razing Gaza to the ground isn't going to make Hamas go away.

And no, I don't know what the answer is.

I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe.

There could be a ceasefire if Hamas released the hostages and stood down.

Any other option means them making good on their founding motto to destroy Israel.

So by this logic, asking for a ceasefire instead of removing a homicidal terror group means you support the destruction of the state of Israel. And we know what that is. It starts with "a" and ends with "nti-Semitism", whichever way you spin it.