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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

The double standards of free speech on Palestine amid Israel’s war on Gaza

138 replies

Ohlalalalala · 28/10/2023 23:12

On UpFront, Marc Lamont Hill speaks to Dima Khalidi, director of Palestine Legal, and Ilan Pappe, renowned author and professor of history at Exeter University, about the limits to free speech on the Israel-Gaza war.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/upfront/2023/10/27/the-double-standards-of-free-speech-on-palestine

As the war in Gaza continues, why is the West cracking down on free speech?
A battle is playing out in the realm of public opinion on Israel’s war on Gaza.

While demonstrations have taken place across the globe in solidarity with Palestinians, there have been campaigns to silence critics of Israel’s actions.

Commentators, academics and even common citizens have reported increasing threats and retaliation for expressing their views or voicing solidarity with the Palestinian people, often in countries that proclaim to uphold values of freedom of expression and democracy.

The double standards of free speech on Palestine

As the war in Gaza continues, why is the West cracking down on free speech?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/upfront/2023/10/27/the-double-standards-of-free-speech-on-palestine

OP posts:
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18
ssd · 05/11/2023 00:33

Really interesting posts here.

SolomonEdGrundy · 04/11/2023 23:57

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FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 04/11/2023 23:53

@SolomonEdGrundy

Wow, so some of the worst anti-Semitic attacks of all seem to be coming from people using believed anti-Semitism against them as justification?!

A non-Jew can wheel out a tired verbal stereotype against a Jewish person as they pass them in the street and be anti-Semitic (not saying they aren't); but a Jew can physically attack another Jew for being 'the wrong kind of Jew' and THEY believe that THEY are the victim of an anti-Semitic attack and the one in the right?! Angry

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 04/11/2023 23:44

I don't believe in reparation

I do believe in trying to enable equality now which isn't quite the same

So I guess that's consistent with a peace process that is forward looking not backwards

So how would we organise that, then? Quite a challenge! Would we have to start all over again and then give everybody an equal share of something, regardless of what they had before?

Would we only do it in areas with disputed land or other disagreements? Or would we start all over again and re-allocate the whole world so that each country had exactly the same area each, or otherwise the same amount of land allocated per inhabitant? And how would you judge which land areas are more desirable or useful?

SolomonEdGrundy · 04/11/2023 23:04

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MrsTerryPratchett · 04/11/2023 22:55

That's awful @SolomonEdGrundy

SolomonEdGrundy · 04/11/2023 22:54

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MrsTerryPratchett · 04/11/2023 22:48

PurpleChrayne · 03/11/2023 11:12

I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe.

There could be a ceasefire if Hamas released the hostages and stood down.

Any other option means them making good on their founding motto to destroy Israel.

So by this logic, asking for a ceasefire instead of removing a homicidal terror group means you support the destruction of the state of Israel. And we know what that is. It starts with "a" and ends with "nti-Semitism", whichever way you spin it.

So all the people currently holding ceasefire placards outside the Ministries in Israel and Netanyahu's house are antisemitic? The 'Israelis for ceasefire' ones specifically. The ones saying it in Hebrew, they are all antisemitic?

Bloody brave people if you ask me. The very best of humanity. Willing to set aside feelings of revenge and anger for all people.

aswarmofmidges · 04/11/2023 22:28

I don't believe in reparation

I do believe in trying to enable equality now which isn't quite the same

So I guess that's consistent with a peace process that is forward looking not backwards

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 04/11/2023 12:34

Instead of harking back to history and who owned what, I think it would be better to start over in a spirit of peace, but that feels 1000 years away at the moment.

I get your thinking, but how would you square that with things like apologies and reparations to the descendants of victims of slavery, centuries later? Do you think this is a bad thing? And if not, how would you differentiate between people, possessions and homelands in history?

flufferknutter · 04/11/2023 12:13

quantumbutterfly · 04/11/2023 10:50

My 'opinion'.
There needs to be some thought on how to reach extremists on all sides.
How were they radicalised? How can they be persuaded that perpetuating that conflict will forever be harmful to them and those they love?
Others have linked to organisations working towards this.

Give them peaceful purpose and turn our attentions to those at the top manipulating them.

There's generations of hatred on both sides I think. Instead of harking back to history and who owned what, I think it would be better to start over in a spirit of peace, but that feels 1000 years away at the moment.

quantumbutterfly · 04/11/2023 10:50

My 'opinion'.
There needs to be some thought on how to reach extremists on all sides.
How were they radicalised? How can they be persuaded that perpetuating that conflict will forever be harmful to them and those they love?
Others have linked to organisations working towards this.

Give them peaceful purpose and turn our attentions to those at the top manipulating them.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 04/11/2023 10:35

Quite.
@SolomonEdGrundy

SolomonEdGrundy · 04/11/2023 10:29

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flufferknutter · 04/11/2023 10:26

ChickHenLittle · 04/11/2023 10:20

Where are the terrorist sympathisers? I have not seen one post supporting Hamas. Did you report?

Show quote history

It's the lazy trope of supporting Palestinians = supporting Hamas 🙄

They need to try harder, it's getting so tedious.

ChickHenLittle · 04/11/2023 10:20

Blanketsburg · 04/11/2023 08:44

I feel the same. And I'm not going to say anything else because I'm not interested in debating with terrorist sympathisers, but you're definitely not alone here.

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Where are the terrorist sympathisers? I have not seen one post supporting Hamas. Did you report?

quantumbutterfly · 04/11/2023 10:16

mids2019 · 04/11/2023 10:12

There is a difference between criticising the actions of the Israeli state and calling for the abolition of Israel even implicitly (which is anti semitic). To some 'freedom' of the Palestinian people required the expulsion of Jews from their own country and this is certainly the view of Hamas and it's sickening call for repeats of the 7th.

So we have to be careful about free speech when it comes to comment about this conflict and any slogan or banner which implicitly mimics Hamas ideology needs to be banned. Overt anti semitism on the streets of London is simply not acceptable.

One day we can address the peace process that inevitably must come but the negotiations need to be with a governing body other than Hamas and we are seeing its removal currently. The two state solution needs to be discussed in terms of Israelis not being forced from their land and some sort of tolerant relationship needs to be extablshed.

🕊

mids2019 · 04/11/2023 10:12

There is a difference between criticising the actions of the Israeli state and calling for the abolition of Israel even implicitly (which is anti semitic). To some 'freedom' of the Palestinian people required the expulsion of Jews from their own country and this is certainly the view of Hamas and it's sickening call for repeats of the 7th.

So we have to be careful about free speech when it comes to comment about this conflict and any slogan or banner which implicitly mimics Hamas ideology needs to be banned. Overt anti semitism on the streets of London is simply not acceptable.

One day we can address the peace process that inevitably must come but the negotiations need to be with a governing body other than Hamas and we are seeing its removal currently. The two state solution needs to be discussed in terms of Israelis not being forced from their land and some sort of tolerant relationship needs to be extablshed.

SolomonEdGrundy · 04/11/2023 10:02

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Original poster
Ohlalalalala · 04/11/2023 10:01

@etmoietmoietmoi I painted you as antisemite??? Me???

I was making a valid argument that one being Jewish doesn't necessarily mean one supports Israel, and that criticising Israel is not antisemitism. And I gave you several examples of Jewish people who are not pro Israel.

So stop being so rude and read properly before starting throwing accusations of antisemitism around.

OP posts:
quantumbutterfly · 04/11/2023 09:57

etmoietmoietmoi · 04/11/2023 09:35

One of the modules taught in Hasbara school I presume

This is the latest soundbite I see. The absolute irony being that OP, who is now casually throwing this statement around, just tried to educate me, someone Jewish, on antisemitism.

Clearly MN is not a safe space for Jewish people anymore.

Physically safe unless you're doxxed, but mentally challenging.
Mumsnet is a microcosm, quite a gobby one though.

SolomonEdGrundy · 04/11/2023 09:40

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etmoietmoietmoi · 04/11/2023 09:35

One of the modules taught in Hasbara school I presume

This is the latest soundbite I see. The absolute irony being that OP, who is now casually throwing this statement around, just tried to educate me, someone Jewish, on antisemitism.

Clearly MN is not a safe space for Jewish people anymore.

quantumbutterfly · 04/11/2023 09:32

Ohlalalalala · 04/11/2023 09:31

"Whataboutism
Tactic
Propaganda technique

Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation. From a logical and argumentative point of view it is considered a variant of the tu-quoque pattern (Latin 'you too', term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the ad-hominem argument.[1][2][3][4]

The communication intent is often to distract from the content of a topic (red herring)."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

One of the modules taught in Hasbara school I presume🙄

Edited to mention the source.

Edited

Rude.

SolomonEdGrundy · 04/11/2023 09:32

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