gaza tunnel system

This is horribly disrespectful to these poor children. How heartless - I would delete this. And you know full well that pictures of suffering children neither prove or disprove genocide which is a legal formulation. All sides suffer horrifically in a war. Trying to stir people up with pictures like this is manipulative & gets us nowhere.

One side has tunnels, rockets made from water pipes and whatever else they can buy on the quiet.
The other has a well funded elite military force with tanks, planes and an army.

Israel holds the cards in this war and is using this to get rid of the Palestine problem. It’ll look lovely in a few years as part of the Israeli state.

Also grateful to Noicant for her informative posts and threads.

I agree totally.
I think it's sick that people post pictures of dead children to make points. We ALL KNOW that children are dying on both sides. We don't need to share pictures to know that and can't understand people that feel the need to see images of people who have been raped or murdered or beheaded to believe it either.

This thread is interesting snd different @Noicant I hope it isn't derailed by people who can post on any if the other threads that are full of incorrect rubbish and emotional rants.

I believe in a free press. I have found it very interesting how much Hamas and/or Palestinian etc support there is on MN

No-one supports Hamas 🙄

Please link any pro Hamas posts on MN

As I'm sure you'll know perfectly well these have been deleted - and rightly so

In a way it's a shame because it enables the claim of "didn't happen", but of course I totally get why they have to go

The Israelis have stopped Palestinians in the Gaza Strip from having free movement and controlled access to food, water, electricity and medical supplies.
Hamas isn’t Palestinians in the same way as so many Israelis don’t now support Netanyahu.

Stop trying to conflate support for Palestinians with support for hamas. Please link any pro Hamas posts on MN. I have been all over these threads for weeks, and all posters supporting Palestinians (including myself) have condemned what hamas did. This is the usual mudslinging that tries to tarnish legitimate criticism of Israel.

Honestly I give up.

this isn’t a war. Israel is an occupying power. It doesn’t have a right to self defense as an occupying power, anymore than Russia has a right to self defense as an occupying power. Anyone with half a brain cell should read the International Court of Justice’s advisory opinion on this issue.

Israel has legal responsibilities to the people that it’s occupying.

and even if it was a war, wars have rules. You don’t collectively starve civilians. Cut off their medicine, electricity, fuel, water. Israel’s actions are worse than Hamas - at least we know who they are and what they stand for. Israel tries to present itself as a democracy even when it commits ongoing acts of barbarism, apartheid and yes genocide.

I believe in a free press. I have found it very interesting how much Hamas and/or Palestinian etc support there is on MN but that is actually one of hte issues Keir Stamer has had to tackle so perhaps I should not have been so surprised. I understand all view points. I support Israel in this and I appreciate not everyone does. ISIS and others have often used children eg for suicide bombs and to train young child soldiers etc so it is not surprising childre might suffer and they would invade Israel and slit the throats of Jewish babies.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation in the UK and the US and UK both know it is our enemy. Israel was invaded, war is declared and war is terrible but necessary to preserve the country. Hamas wants there to be no jewish state.

I think some people on MN only read one side of the news which is why threads where people are on different sides or none are a good thing so we can hear the views of others.

Hamas is to blame for the loss of life in Gaza.

I think both Hamas and Netanyahu are blocks to peace. Hamas stated aim is the destruction of Israel, they absolutely do not want a 2 state solution. Netanyahu has encouraged settlement of the West Bank and has done nothing to further stability and peace. There literally cannot be peace whilst either of those parties are in power in their respective domains

More common sense ... how refreshing

I posted this for people who like to have information about what is going on

Well I'm one of them and I thank you, @Noicant ... and from a reputable source too instead of the usual Twitter crap

I've also noticed your balanced, informative posts on other threads, standing out with a few others like beacons of rationality among what's largely become a mass of hyperbole, misinformation and outright lies

Good luck though, because I doubt you'll be widely thanked for it

So much complete fiction and nonsense on these threads.

Israel 'systematically targeting' civilians 🙄

Israel 'carpet bombing' Gaza. 🙄

Give your heads a wobble. Firstly the death figures coming out of Gaza are provided by Hamas, won't question that source at all... 🙄

Secondly even if the figure of 7000 dead was correct, that is actually a very small figure and indicative of a high degree of distinction and proportionate targeting, given that Gaza is the most densely populated area on earth.

If Israel was actually deliberately targeting civilians, the figure would be in the 100s of thousands, probably higher.

Israel is the military world leader in targeting, because they have to be due to their enemies prefrere tactic of placing military installations in civilian areas, schools and hospitals. (A war crime by the way).

Prior to Oct 7 British military targeters would routinely train with the IDF, because they are known as being the best in the world at minimising civilian deaths.

Innocent people always die in wars, it's tragic but unavoidable. It's one of the key considerations that should be taken before you start a war. Maybe someone should have told Hamas.

I think a big difference that you may not have considered is that I don't see the poor children in those pictures deaths being celebrated by anyone on any side.

Nobody has posted pictures of their murders to their families Facebook accounts, spat on their bodies or tied them together and burnt them for example.

Can't really say the same about Hamas can we? The acts of Oct 7 were the absolute face of evil and showed exactly why Israel has to do what they are doing right now.

I'm leaning toward thinking that the Israeli government realise that at the heart of all of this sits at the door of their huge failure of intelligence.
This is driving their actions.
The tunnel infrastructure has been created under the noses of their security services. Also they were laid bare with the horrendous attack by Hamas.
My dad worked with all of the intelligence services due to his work in the Middle East. The only intelligence service that sent chills down his spine was Mossad.
So for them to have been shown to be 'sleeping' is a critical hit for Israel.
I don't for one minute think their actions show a wish for peace.

Hate breeds hate and they are ensuring peace will never be negotiated in this region.

I really don’t know when people say things like this whether they are really believe it or just pretending to other people to justify the genocide

The poster who claimed the only reason people can’t flee Gaza is Hamas won’t let them had me thinking literally that.

They aren't committing genocide. You should listen to international lawyers, not what you read on placards How about what they should do? Noone seems to have an answer?

There was also an article in yesterdays Guardian by Peter Beaumont about the tunnels including the search of the sub-basements of Al Shatila hosp by Israel in 2014 and the billions of aid money wasted