gaza tunnel system

The south of Gaza? An area already overpopulated and the Israelis have bombed.

Difficult to travel when you have no where to go to, the route has been bombed as has your vehicle, you have no petrol or food , you’re old, disabled, ill or attached to an intensive care unit in hospital.

Israel's latest advice from yesterday for civilians to move south included a sinister post note.
Telling those that flee will be able to return home after the conflict.
Isn't this how so many Palestinians were permanently displaced in recent history?
Were they ever given the ability to return to their homes?
It's no wonder that normal Gazans are reluctant to flee because they know they will never see their homes again.
Either their homes will be blasted into oblivion or the war will go on for so long that it'll never be an option to return.
I was watching a news report yesterday about some Palestinians living in an occupied area. They had chosen (as if they had anywhere to go or another means of making a meagre living) to stay where they owned land and grew olives. Increasingly they are being driven out because they are picking their harvest under Israeli drones and vehicles and the ever threat of arrest.
So to stay and farm the land that has been in your family for generations is becoming more and more difficult.
And this is an area where Palestinians have been given 'permission' to stay.
This won't stay in Gaza it will spread to the West Bank.
It's already started 😞

The south of Gaza as a temporary move to allow military operations in the north, as clearly communicated to the by the IDF for the last 2 weeks.

This is an interesting article about the tunnel network and the complexities of fighting a war underground.
https://mwi.westpoint.edu/underground-nightmare-hamas-tunnels-and-the-wicked-problem-facing-the-idf/

It’s this hospital presumably?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/28/world/middleeast/gaza-al-shifa-hospital-israel.html

The international aid agencies in the region have made it clear that there is nowhere for 2 million Gazans to move to. The borders to Egypt are heavily controlled.

Where do you think they can move to?

Why can't they leave given that Israel has given them weeks of notice and opened safe routes for them to clearly designated areas in the south?

Who is stopping them leaving? 🤔

I think you know who.m

I meant they can’t leave Gaza (unless Egypt has opened the Rafah crossing but I bet it hasn’t)

Who is indiscriminately attacking civilians? That's a bold claim that I assume you can evidence?

And tell me they aren't causing genocide , to thousands of Palestinian civilians
You don't "cause genocide" to individuals. Genocide means to kill most of an ethnic group (on purpose).

Why can't they leave given that Israel has given them weeks of notice and opened safe routes for them to clearly designated areas in the south?

Who is stopping them leaving? 🤔

I think you know who.

Hamas had a headquarters full of weapons under a hospital

Which hospital? Do you know its name?

It really doesn’t muddy the waters. The IRA had widespread support from nationalists during the troubles. In fact I read somewhere the majority of Sinn Fein supporters in the North still believe the violence was justified . Should they have all been killed.

it’s never ok to indiscriminately attack unarmed civilians.

Again just to jog my memory, what happens to Israel whenever they relax the border with Gaza?

It's almost like if you were in Israel's position you might do the same, given that I doubt you would want to watch your own people being kidnapped, raped and murdered in cross border raids just because having an open border keeps the UN happy.

Hamas had a headquarters full of weapons under a hospital. They really don't care about Palestinian citizens even kids. When Israel was telling Palestinians to go South before they bombed the North, Hamas was telling people to stay North.

Remind me again, when was the last time Israel occupied Gaza?

Gaza is still considered (by the UN) occupied territory due the blockade it put in place after Hamas took over.

Sounds reasonable - the tragedy being that Hamas have deliberately opted to place such facilities in positions where their destruction will involve killing civilians

I doubt Hamas are deliberately planning to get civilians killed anymore than Israel is. If you bomb a densely populated area full of people (who can’t leave) then people are going to die.

Israel are doing none of those things.

Gaza has adequate fuel, it's being hoarded by Hamas for military purposes. They have medicine and water, once again it is being channeled to Hamas fighters and away from civilians.

Israel gave over 2 weeks notice for civilians to move into safer areas with more access to medicine and aid prior to their attack (a tactic that places their own troops at far greater risk, purely to try and prevent civilian deaths)

Have you any idea how hard and complex a military operation removing a terrorist group from a densely populated civilian area is? Israel are doing a good job of minimising casualties tbh. Where did you learn about military ops? The Ladybird Book of Tactics?!

Hamas have a lot to answer for in regards to things like placing their command posts in hospitals deliberately, keeping supplies from civilians in order to resupply their fighters and refusing to let civilians leave to safe areas.

I also must have missed your condemnation of Egypt, who also have closed border with Gaza and are refusing to supply them with food and water?

After the last hostilities in 2021, Hamas's leader in Gaza, Yehya Al-Sinwar, said: "They started saying they destroyed 100 km of Hamas tunnels. I am telling you, the tunnels we have in the Gaza Strip exceed 500 km. Even if their narrative is true, they only destroyed 20% of the tunnels."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-tunnel-city-beneath-gaza-hidden-frontline-israel-2023-10-26/#:~:text=JERUSALEM%2FLONDON%2C%20Oct%2026%20(,%22Viet%20Cong%20times%2010%22.

I find it chilling that you consider what Israel is currently doing is ‘restrained’.

I’ll say it again, even laws have wars. You can’t collectively starve and dehydrate people and block their access to medicine, electricity and fuel and cut off all their communication to the outside world. There isn’t ANY justification that makes this ok. That people seem to gloss over the fact Israel is doing this is incomprehensible to me.

Remind me again, when was the last time Israel occupied Gaza?

How on earth can it be right to wipe out an entire nation? Shaun King, Eye on Palestine and others are showing the true extent of what is going on. This isn't about Israel's right to exist. It's about the fact that Israel has illegally occupied Palestinian land for decades and continues to expand their occupation leaving Palestinians displaced, destroyed and destitute. Imagine Wales decided to take over the majority of England, forcing people out of their homes and saying we all had to live in a random place like Swansea. The entire of England move to Swansea because Wales decided Wales isn't big enough for the Welsh people. Those who moved to Swansea from the rest of England after having been forced by Wales aren't allowed to leave Swansea. Our supplies to Swansea are rationed and controlled. We aren't allowed to work certain jobs, own land or leave the country. Would that be ok? I think not.

It does need to stop I agree. Do you know who could stop it rapidly with almost no more loss of life? Hamas.

Surrender, release hostages and explicitly give up their charter to wipe the state of Israel off the map, stop spending billions in international aid on weapons, rockets and tunnels and in 10 years time Gaza could be the Singapore of the med.

If Israel agrees to a ceasefire now, with things as they are, then what next exactly? Just sit and wait for the next cross border raid to target another few hundred teenagers at a music festival? Give your head a shake.

If you were in Israel's position, living next door to people who want you and your family dead and have posted videos celebrating the rape of women and children to death, I doubt you would be anywhere nearly as restrained as they are being. 🙄

Sounds reasonable - the tragedy being that Hamas have deliberately opted to place such facilities in positions where their destruction will involve killing civilians