To think Israel won't exist much longer?

They tried to sodomise them.

Thanks for this.!
Much more thorough than mine…appreciated
( As an Irish Catholic we all know about Thatchers detention without trial.)

@SolomonEdGrundy Is that the same footage that was screened in Gaza outside Shifa hospital for public enjoyment?
That's great they've managed to keep the power on.

@Parkingt111 posted this to another thread about the 3,200 Palestinian worked who were numbered and tagged, then sent back into the no-safe-zone Gaza Strip:

Salameh said he and other Palestinian workers from the Gaza Strip were arrested and tagged on October 8 before being taken to Ofer Prison on the outskirts of the occupied West Bank city of Ramallah. They were summoned for interrogation and tortured on what Salameh described as an electrical chair for several days.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/3/arrested-tortured-and-insulted-say-workers-returned-to-gaza-by-israel

IDF and Jewish settlers also tortured and tried to rape 3 Palestinians in the West Bank:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-settlers-alleged-to-bind-strip-beat-burn-and-pee-on-palestinians-in-w-bank/amp/

Israel has also been torturing Palestinians from the West Bank:

Al Jazeera, Palestinian prisoner groups and his family received the same information on what transpired: Israeli forces beat Hamdan, refused him his medication, and placed him under the sun with a bag on his head for long hours before he died.

“This is what happened based on the testimonies from the people who were detained with him at Etzion, and what his family have heard, too,” said Sarahneh, noting that Hamdan, as for the majority of people who are detained, was beaten in front of his family during his arrest.
…
Since Israel’s bombardment of the besieged Gaza Strip began on October 7, Israeli forces have also intensified their nightly raids into Palestinian homes, villages and cities in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem.
In the past 25 days, Israel has doubled the number of Palestinians in its custody, from 5,200 people to more than 10,000.

Most of these prisoners are being held under laws and military orders that allow detention without trial or charge.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2023/11/1/he-threw-up-blood-palestinian-detainees-face-abuse-in-israeli-custody

Horrendous

Maybe if someone sane steps in there could be hope for an end to atrocities

Protest in Israel calling for resignation of Netanyahu

Hostages held by Israel treated inhumanely

@Parkingt111 What an impasse!

But that was a few days ago so I'm not sure if things have changed since then

From what I have read both sides have said yes to a ceasefire based on certain conditions
So Netanyahu has said no ceasefire until Hamas releases hostages
And Hamas have said they will not release hostages until a ceasefire is agreed upon

Israel will not be annihilated if there's a ceasefire. For all Hamas' ambitions, they don't have anything like the ability to achieve such a thing. Israel's significant defensive capabilities are relevant. Ongoing aggression has not and will not work.

@25milesfromhome I have seen occasional headlines with proposals for ceasefire. Hamas have requested the children before, and if Israel were to do any exchange, I think this is the most reasonable one to do. Netanyahu has also said he will agree to ceasefire if all the hostages are released. So, maybe the grounds for an exchange and ceasefire are there. The longer this goes on, the more stubborn and unyielding both sides become. It would not be easy to bring about, but it has not even been tried yet, so I would not dismiss it out of hand.

@ketchup07070 I’d like to see all of those things happen too and very soon, I hope. However, a ceasefire requires both parties to cease firing. Has Hamas called for a ceasefire? Are they agreeing to one? The advantages you list are the outcomes of a ceasefire- both Israel and Hamas have to agree to stop fighting each other in the first place before any of that can happen. Hamas representatives have repeatedly stated their objectives are the annihilation of Israel and the martyrdom of the Palestinians in pursuit of that. Netanyahu is an amoral megalomaniac. Neither are conducive to a ceasefire.

I see the advantages of a ceasefire as:
Much more likely to retrieve hostages. Israel may have to return the Palestinian children who it is alleged are being tortured and abused in Israeli military jails. I'm sure you would agree, it would be a good idea to have these children seen by doctors and the claims investigated.
Much safer to retrieve hostages without active bombing and shooting going on. Much more likely the hostages will survive.
Allows the ICC and UN access to Gaza to begin investigations into the war crimes of Hamas and begin prosecutions.
Allows the UN to place peacekeeping forces in the area, and to have oversight of the political situation.
Prevents further civilian deaths in Gaza.
Prevents further soldier deaths for Israel.
Prevent a refugee crisis.
Prevent further damage to world economies and standards of living. Save the rest of the world from paying the bill for this war, or Israel itself being made to cover the enormous costs.
Prevent escalation into WW3

What are the long term advantages of continuing to attack Gaza, in your view?

Pertaining to Israel's continued existence if in doubt to those who do not think she should exist; how come a ceasefire is being demanded of Israel, but it was Hamas that both broke the previous one and has stated that it will continue doing so by stating that contain nued terror towards Israel is going to be Hamas's MO?
So why would any sensible person think that a "ceasefire" wouldn't benefit Hamas more than Israel or Gazans who the Hamas leadership have already stated are and will be righteous collateral damage to its aim of destroying Israel?
So tell me without gaslighting me why anybody wouldn't seek to destroy an enemy whose sole aim is to destroy me and mine to the point that they do not care if their own die , too? Why would I have to care more about those whose leadership prefer them as dead martyrs , whilst I want me and mine to live?
Sorry, but calling for a ceasefire between a valid nation and a deathcult who started this war seems to be an attempt at appeasement that even Chamberlain would laugh at.
At least Hitler at the time of Chamberlain made out as if he had a sense of reason . Hamas aren't even trying to style out as if they are wolves in sheep's clothing. They are saying that they are worse than wolves .
I think that partisan Pro Palestinian supporters would be better spending their energy protesting Hamas.....if they really care about Gazans.

It is one of those sadly impossible threads.

Israel has and had no choice but to defeat enemies - as in every war since independence - because they know that if it ever comes even close to losing - to the formation of a new state of Palestine where Israel currently is (e.g. a new country with majority Muslim population), then the current population of Israel (80% Jewish, 20% Muslim+Christian+other - side note that minorities who accept state of Israel have Arabic as formal language, and more rights than anywhere else in ME - including freedom of expression and all sexual and identity rights. You have arab-israeli chief lord justices, generals etc etc) will be eradicated.

A population with a history of attempts at its eradication, outnumbered 10 to 1, on a tiny strip of land which is the only place they call home - is quite obviously stuck in an impossible position and will not cave in.

It seems very difficult for all those chanting "River to sea" to understand this point - Palestine instead of Israel will be a massacre of the entire population of Israel - 7th October reminded the Israeli population of this.

And Israel knows this and behave accordingly - there will be civilian deaths in Gaza as they try to end Hamas. Hamas buries itself amongst civilians and builds it's infrastructure within civilian areas.

If there was no Hamas, there would be no conflict right now.

Probably the only practical solution I've ever seen was that suggested by an Israeli billionaire - build industrial areas with jobs (akin to Marshall plan). His point was that once people have jobs, they have meaning, and suddenly the wanting to be terrorists falls away.

It is tragic.

Agreed

The thread title is “To think Israel won’t exist much longer”. I’m talking about how Israel can continue to exist within the confines of long established antagonistic, adversarial politics, ineffective posturing diplomacy and actions designed to prolong and exacerbate conflict on all sides. The nature of which dominates any attempts at positive, meaningful change.
What do you think the subject of this thread is?

I’d also be interested to know which countries have recalled their ambassadors from Pakistan as they begin deporting up to 2 million Afghan refugees back to Taliban occupied Afghanistan? Including the thousands of Afghan refugees who are at extreme risk of torture and murder by the Taliban and were promised resettlement by the US and UK for their co-operation

Iran is about to expel several million as well.

Israel has nearly killed the same amount of civilians in one month that Russia has since Feb 2022. (info taken from BBC) So maybe that's why?

Maybe. Or maybe, just possibly, it's ideologically driven given Turkey's good relationship with Putin?