To think Israel won't exist much longer?

I know they are a terrorist organisation. A violent extreme one that commits barbaric acts.

It could be the Palestinian administration. Or similar

Link?

The nearest I can find on the Times of Israel website is an article that says Israel believes Hamas is dragging out the hostage negotiations to try and delay any ground offensive. That is very different from the implication you are trying to draw.

@EasternStandard Complete separation I think is a good idea. I’m guessing you’d not want Hamas to stay in power. Can you see who would take their place?

Of course no one wants Hamas in power. They are a terrorist organisation. That’s why I am so incredulous that people seem unable to seperate Hamas from Palestinian people. There is a current Palestinian administration in the West Bank - whether it’s them who take power, who knows. But you can’t fill the vacuum with more extremism. And the current bombing will just radicalise more people.

What do you think happens when you bomb the Palestinian children - they are being torn limb from limb - no doubt some have also lost their heads. Many are burning alive in the fires and being crushed or smothered in the rubble.

Why is only the horrible death and suffering of some children a concern to you. Do you not think that Palestinian children can feel pain or suffer or experience trauma? That their siblings, parents, and extended family who watch them die horrible deaths feel nothing - that they are not human like Israeli children and parents? That they don't have all the same emotions? That they don't grieve?

Palestinian children have been dying for decades - now thousands are dying. I find it shocking when people minimize that and think that the only deaths that matter are the Israeli ones. That they are the only ones in this who have been brutalized and traumatized and tormented and who feel pain or sorry or suffering or grief.

Take what happened in Israel and magnify it many many times over - that is what has happened and is happening in Palestine.

I do not think posters of Israeli children should be ripped down but I think what should be done is put up the names and faces of the thousands of Palestinian children who are being blown apart, burnt alive, being crushed, left to smother and die. I wonder if seeing names and faces would help humanize the Palestinians for those who only care about Israeli lives and children.

i dont have a fancy academic paper to prove differently, other than to say i doubt your correct in your analysis @sergeantsalt

I think they just left Hamas to it, mostly the iron dome was doing a good job or protecting Israelis. Theres no need to try to remove them if they are just terrorising their own people and a random annoyance to you. The blockade was designed to contain Hamas. Why attack a HQ when you think the threat is containable without bombing a hospital or having to put boots on the ground in an area you haven’t occupied for nearly 20years. It would be seen a provocation.

Hamas isn't exactly the most reliable source of information either tbf, and putting their HQ under a hospital is pretty typical of their strategy.

What? This is not true at all. Israel are a well connected power with money, weapons and the support of the West. What we are seeing is the total obliteration of the Palestinian people. If you look up the history you will see how Israel have been gradually taking over Palestine piece by piece for years.

I'm actually not sure why I am responding to this as you must have completely misunderstood what is happening, or not looked up any of the history of this conflict.

*Their hq is under the shifa hospital.

I’m not being funny but if the Israeli intelligence didn’t know Hamas were planning a massive terrorist attack it’s unlikely they know where their HQ i*

@Defiantjazz yes quite. It’s just Israeli propaganda- letting the world know that they are about to commit more war crimes (illegal under the Geneva conventions)

Complete separation I think is a good idea. I’m guessing you’d not want Hamas to stay in power. Can you see who would take their place?

So if the media don't cover something, everything will just be fine. Let's just put our heads in the sand and ignore the suffering of millions of people.

Their hq is under the shifa hospital.

I’m not being funny but if the Israeli intelligence didn’t know Hamas were planning a massive terrorist attack it’s unlikely they know where their HQ is.

Yabu but I think Israel will become more overtly a part of the USA global empire. In the same way that the USSR needed Cuba to thrive as a communist state on the doorstep of the USA during the cold war, it is vital for US interests in the Middle East to have a foothold there. That strip of land is far too strategically important to ever be surrendered to become part of the surrounding region of muslim-dominated states.

However it's unrealistic to keep pretending that it can exist as an independent sovereign state. Looking across the last thousands of years of history it has almost always been part of a wider empire. Any periods of existing as an independent nation are very short-lived and this will be true now too.

The best outcome might be for it to become an official US overseas territory like these ones which would mean that their neighbours and terrorists would be contending with the full weight of the US military - possibly giving more sensible people enough reason to choose not to act with violence, but possibly making the more extremist factions even more violent so perhaps not much change but at least with that status the non-jewish population would have recourse to a justice structure which ought to provide some protection for those wanting to just live in peace and get on with their lives.

I think you’re probably right

I wouldn’t count on it. They have made it this long and it’s all their neighbours wanting to eradicate them. America is going to keep sending them money and weapons plus they have their own nuclear weapons and a vast military. I can’t see them going anywhere soon..

Well, to be precise, more Palestinians have died at the hands of Israel than Israelis at the end of Palestinians over nearly 80 years. The numbers are widely available.

Hamas committed an isis style terrorist attack on Israeli civilians. Women and children were raped and beheaded and burnt alive. A child was ripped from their mother's womb and beheaded. This is what you are defending with your whataboutery. Nice

*What is your view on the existence of Israel?

Exist or not*

@EasternStandard i think there has to be a proper 2 state solution. People forget that Hamas have prevented an free election in Gaza for 17 years. Punishing the current generation (and make no mistake, what Israel is currently doing is collective punishment under international law and a war crime) is utterly fucked up. You cannot blame the people of Gaza for the actions of a terrorist group- it’s just an excuse.

People also need to take a long hard look at what the settlers are doing on the West Bank too- violently throwing Palestinians off their land. There has to be a proper fair 2 state solution that allows dignity for the Palestinians too.

I think that is extremely likely. Or Israel will completely push everyone out of North Gaza permanently and declare it a demilitarised buffer zone, necessary to put Israelis out of range of Hama's rockets. Then settlers will start land-grabbing in North Gaza and creating Israeli settlements which will be in range of Hamas and the cycle of violence will continue, with innocent civilians on both sides accounting for the majority of casualties.

Hamas use civilians as human shields. Their hq is under the shifa hospital. They don’t want a two state solution. They want the destruction of Israel. They are very clear on that. Israel is not carpet bombing Gaza or targeting it indiscriminately. The civilian death figures are produced by hamas who lie a lot. Hamas run a brutal regime in Gaza. Hamas declared war on Israel by killing 1400 and kidnapping 233.

Israel are not going to lose support. The worst they’ll suffer is the ignominy of moderate criticism.
Gaza, on the other hand, may well cease to exist at this rate.