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Conflict in the Middle East

To think Israel won't exist much longer?

890 replies

sergeantsalt · 28/10/2023 07:56

Support in the west is declining, and when Israel doesn't have weapons and defense funding they won't be able to defend against their neighbouring countries on their own. AIBU to wonder how much longer it can exist given they are losing support?

OP posts:
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SomeCatFromJapan · 29/10/2023 15:26

I do think this is Netenyahu finished now, as there is public anger at he and his wife are hiding in a mansion with a nuclear bunker.

Once hostilities have ceased it would be good to have a more moderate figure leading Israel.

Oliotya · 29/10/2023 15:24

Poudretteite · 29/10/2023 15:18

Hamas' headquarters have been located underneath the hospital

There's ~15000 people in and around the hospital. If Israel bomb it now, it is deliberate and intentional murder of civilians. Even in war, it is not justified to do anything you like to achieve your goal.

Poudretteite · 29/10/2023 15:18

Parkingt111 · 29/10/2023 15:08

HEAVY BOMBING HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN THE VICINITY OF AL QUDS HOSPITAL

This is madness. How can anyone justify this??

Hamas' headquarters have been located underneath the hospital

Parkingt111 · 29/10/2023 15:10

If Al Quds or Al shifa get struck right now Israel would have well and truly crossed all red lines.

There will be no turning back from this atrocity

This is not how a democracy operates

Parkingt111 · 29/10/2023 15:08

HEAVY BOMBING HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN THE VICINITY OF AL QUDS HOSPITAL

This is madness. How can anyone justify this??

To think Israel won't exist much longer?
Parkingt111 · 29/10/2023 14:10

From sky news

To think Israel won't exist much longer?
Parkingt111 · 29/10/2023 14:10

Extremely worried right now about the continuous threats to bomb Al Quds hospital
This will definitely cross a red line for many if that does happen aswell as becoming a huge catastrophe

Parkingt111 · 29/10/2023 14:04

Sorry it was me who first saw it and thank you to @OhHelloTheres for providing context
I think it's been established that this incident wasn't just random but there was a provocation
And it's also been said that despite the extremely disrespectful act to do 'death to arabs' is not justified
The situation on the ground has escalated since including a live battle continuous bombing and also a very tense scary situation regarding the hostages
Let's pray for a ceasefire and the release of hostages

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 13:19

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 13:15

Yes. Clearly you think egg throwing and murder are similar. Personally I dont think egg throwing is much of an out there reaction to feeling helpless and persecuted. Should they do it, no, but it's just eggs at the end of the day, it's not murder and it's nothing like murder. I don't know what else to say to you. Like I said we are very different people.

No, you said they were throwing eggs because people are apparently being persecuted and slaughtered in another part of the country. I said ok but my family was actually directly persecuted and slaughtered so what level of revenge am I allowed? Because so far I've not exacted any revenge and have just got on with my life.

So if someone throws eggs at you you're just going to sit back and allow it? Even if you were pretty sure they were doing it as a hate crime?

When my kids fight, I tell both of them off as inevitably one has provoked and the other reacted. Both of these things are wrong. If my primary aged kids get it, why don't you?

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 13:15

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 13:11

That's what we started talking about. Then you justified it because apparently something happening in a different part of a country means you're entitled to throw eggs at people. I was trying to point out how ridiculous you're being so used hyperbole to ensure my point came across. It clearly didn't though

Yes. Clearly you think egg throwing and murder are similar. Personally I dont think egg throwing is much of an out there reaction to feeling helpless and persecuted. Should they do it, no, but it's just eggs at the end of the day, it's not murder and it's nothing like murder. I don't know what else to say to you. Like I said we are very different people.

HoldOnMiGenna · 29/10/2023 13:13

Whether neutral or polarised, it takes a certain type of stupidity to think that a valid nation's existence is contingent upon how much negative opinion towards it government it can garner.
If the world existed that way ( say since 1900), Russia, the U.S, the UK and Great Britain, Iran, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, UAE, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Vietnam, France, Spain, Portugal, Brazil, Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Somalia, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Jamaica, Grenada, Cuba, Haiti, Italy by virtue of hosting Vatican City, Thailand , Australia......
Palestinians , who were Jordanians decades ago are no more oppressed than other ethnicities who have been oppressed and have not managed to use their oppression to destroy the existence of the nation that had or is oppressing them or who continuously provides shoddy governance for its people.
I dare say that the OP says more about that person's wish, than the OP having any sense of reality.
It's just a pity that said desire ties in with the desire of all Islamist terror groups, anti Semites and Muslims of an Islamist persuasion.
What a way to make the mask slip, eh?
"From the river to the sea", indeed!

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 13:11

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 13:10

I was talking about why the Arabs that were throwing eggs might be a little bit angry. You know this. It was clear. You are the one that lept to trying to justify why you might murder people Confused We obviously just think very differently, that's all.

That's what we started talking about. Then you justified it because apparently something happening in a different part of a country means you're entitled to throw eggs at people. I was trying to point out how ridiculous you're being so used hyperbole to ensure my point came across. It clearly didn't though

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 13:10

@OhHelloTheres I'm sorry. That is disgusting. I am just puzzled over how a society becomes so volatile, almost lawless and full of rage. It seems far from what the place could be, with all the history and culture it should be such a beautiful place.

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 13:10

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 13:07

I mean, you're the one who mentioned persecution and slaughter. You were the one to bring it up. And I was using my family history as an example

Edited

I was talking about why the Arabs that were throwing eggs might be a little bit angry. You know this. It was clear. You are the one that lept to trying to justify why you might murder people Confused We obviously just think very differently, that's all.

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 13:07

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 13:04

They were throwing eggs? How are you getting killing out of that? Fecking hell. Why would your mind even go there? The bloodlust in some people is strong Confused

I mean, you're the one who mentioned persecution and slaughter. You were the one to bring it up. And I was using my family history as an example

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 13:06

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 12:56

I think egg throwers should have been dealt with by the police. That is my entire point. Not by a civilian mob.
Here is an example of 'death to Arabs' chant, reported by Times of Israel in May this year. That is what I mean when I say this behaviour is not new,
At Jerusalem Flag March, chants of 'Death to Arabs' and assaults on Palestinians | The Times of Israel

That's disgusting. Not sure why those rallies are allowed. I'm pro-Israel but these people do not speak for me. Absolutely revolting.

Very similar things are shouted by Palestinians and their supporters too but about Jews and Israelis. They're all as bad as each other.

The only reason I started speaking up for Israel is because I saw the disgusting comments people were making about those who had been murdered in cold blood by Hamas and those who had been kidnapped. Every single post put up asking if someone knew what had happened to their loved ones there were hundreds of laughing emojis. Every. Single. Post. The hatred is unreal. It's beyond disgusting. Both sides are at it and it's fucking despicable.

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 13:04

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:47

Oh right so I assumed context had to actually be relevant to the events in question. But apparently not. Ok so as I'm an Arab, Iraqi to be exact, and as my family were forced to leave and those who didn't manage to escape were hung in the town square for the crime of being Jewish, I assume I am now allowed to go out and kill any Iraqis I want? Or is it any Muslim I want? Please clarify as I'm very interested in how your mind works

They were throwing eggs? How are you getting killing out of that? Fecking hell. Why would your mind even go there? The bloodlust in some people is strong Confused

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 12:56

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:30

No idea. I haven't been watching the news today. I assume you forgot to mention that you also hope those who threw eggs have also been dealt with? Mere oversight, right?

What makes you think this kind of event isn't anything new? Or is that just something you say to make it sound like you know what you're talking about?

Are you saying it's ok to provoke as long as you've not done anything illegal?

I think egg throwers should have been dealt with by the police. That is my entire point. Not by a civilian mob.
Here is an example of 'death to Arabs' chant, reported by Times of Israel in May this year. That is what I mean when I say this behaviour is not new,
At Jerusalem Flag March, chants of 'Death to Arabs' and assaults on Palestinians | The Times of Israel

At Jerusalem Flag March, chants of ‘Death to Arabs’ and assaults on Palestinians

Still, contentious event ends without major incident as thousands of religious nationalists participate; some attack Palestinians and reporters, sing 'May your village burn'

https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-jerusalem-flag-march-chants-of-death-to-arabs-and-assaults-on-palestinians/

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:55

Or maybe, we can accept that this was an isolated incident with people throwing eggs and then others overreacting in response. This all happened due to heightened tensions. And then we can just leave it at that instead of trying to justify it further?

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:47

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 12:43

Really? You don't think that Israelis killing 100s and 100s of Arabs every day has anything at all to do with why Arabs might be a little bit upset? Why would you think it all has to happen in the same place? Are you assuming Arabs don't know how to read or use the Internet? That they just aren't aware of how they are being persecuted and slaughtered by Israelis? How bizarre 🤔

Oh right so I assumed context had to actually be relevant to the events in question. But apparently not. Ok so as I'm an Arab, Iraqi to be exact, and as my family were forced to leave and those who didn't manage to escape were hung in the town square for the crime of being Jewish, I assume I am now allowed to go out and kill any Iraqis I want? Or is it any Muslim I want? Please clarify as I'm very interested in how your mind works

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 12:43

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:36

Not sure how any of that caused people in Israel to throw eggs at people though? Well, except for the blocking mosques thing. It's the first I'm hearing of it. I assume you're saying that's happened in Netanya as that's where the eggs were thrown. Which mosque is it so I can look it up?

If you're talking about al-Aqsa in Jerusalem that's an entirely different thing and has nothing to do with egg-throwing in Netanya. There's a lot more to it than you'd like to believe

Really? You don't think that Israelis killing 100s and 100s of Arabs every day has anything at all to do with why Arabs might be a little bit upset? Why would you think it all has to happen in the same place? Are you assuming Arabs don't know how to read or use the Internet? That they just aren't aware of how they are being persecuted and slaughtered by Israelis? How bizarre 🤔

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:36

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 12:32

OK but if context is important then you have to mention Israelis blocking mosques. You have to mention Israelis killing people in the West Bank. You have mention Israel killing 1000s and 1000s of people just across the wall. As you say, nothing happens in a vacuum.

Not sure how any of that caused people in Israel to throw eggs at people though? Well, except for the blocking mosques thing. It's the first I'm hearing of it. I assume you're saying that's happened in Netanya as that's where the eggs were thrown. Which mosque is it so I can look it up?

If you're talking about al-Aqsa in Jerusalem that's an entirely different thing and has nothing to do with egg-throwing in Netanya. There's a lot more to it than you'd like to believe

Gruntsandgroans · 29/10/2023 12:32

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:06

I'm not saying chanting death to Arabs is acceptable. Of course it isn't! I'm explaining why, adding some context so others don't think it's just a random hateful act.

They threw eggs at those praying and played loud Arabic music to disrupt the religious service. It's disrespectful and provocative beyond belief, but people still shouldn't be calling for death to anyone.

I thought we'd established three weeks ago that context is important, everyone kept telling me it was anyway. "Please understand why the Palestinians are celebrating the slaughter of Israelis". So if context is important, I am just here to provide some for this despicable act.

And I can assure you if someone was throwing eggs at me, I'd expect the police to take them into custody. It's not ok for anyone to be throwing things at people, it cannot be allowed to be normalised. That's not even taking into account wether or not it's a hate crime.

Edited

OK but if context is important then you have to mention Israelis blocking mosques. You have to mention Israelis killing people in the West Bank. You have mention Israel killing 1000s and 1000s of people just across the wall. As you say, nothing happens in a vacuum.

OhHelloTheres · 29/10/2023 12:30

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 12:27

@OhHelloTheres I do understand the heightened tensions, but I don't think this kind of event is anything new. I can't really understand how society arrived at this point - though as you say, there is discontent with government so maybe the population have distrusted their institutions to deal with issues for some time. Have there been any actions taken to deal with those chanting 'death to Arabs'? It would not be acceptable in my country and would probably result in prosecution.

No idea. I haven't been watching the news today. I assume you forgot to mention that you also hope those who threw eggs have also been dealt with? Mere oversight, right?

What makes you think this kind of event isn't anything new? Or is that just something you say to make it sound like you know what you're talking about?

Are you saying it's ok to provoke as long as you've not done anything illegal?

ketchup07070 · 29/10/2023 12:27

@OhHelloTheres I do understand the heightened tensions, but I don't think this kind of event is anything new. I can't really understand how society arrived at this point - though as you say, there is discontent with government so maybe the population have distrusted their institutions to deal with issues for some time. Have there been any actions taken to deal with those chanting 'death to Arabs'? It would not be acceptable in my country and would probably result in prosecution.

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