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Conflict in the Middle East
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6500 Dead: "Creating a severe humanitarian crisis is a necessary means to achieve the goal. Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist" Israeli Military Official

368 replies

Ohlalalalala · 25/10/2023 19:16

Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people[a] in whole or in part. In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.[1][2] Wikipedia

Reservist Major General Giora Eiland told Israeli media on Monday that Israel’s actions in “creating a severe humanitarian crisis is a necessary means to achieve the goal. Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist.”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/25/gaza-is-out-of-fuel-out-of-time-under-israels-bombardment

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/24/israel-hamas-war-live-fuel-shortfall-could-force-un-to-halt-work-in-gaza-2

Oxfam says starvation is being used as a weapon of war against civilians in Gaza, adding just two percent of usual food has been delivered to the enclave since Israel’s “total siege”.

Gaza death toll rises to 6,500, including Al Jazeera correspondent’s family

Al Jazeera Arabic’s Wael Dahdouh’s wife, son and daughter among family members killed after home hit.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/24/israel-hamas-war-live-fuel-shortfall-could-force-un-to-halt-work-in-gaza-2

OP posts:
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49
Dinkydaisy1 · 02/12/2023 22:04

Xenia · 02/12/2023 22:02

Mumsnet is full of anti Israel comments - I fell like 1% on here in my support for Israel. However the UK and US support Israel, one of the only free, reasonable and democratic countries when compared with terrible places like Iran which are our enemies and out to destroy us calling us "the Little Satan" and the like.

Do you just copy and paste the same comment on every thread? I'm sure chatgpt can give you some more varied answers

Xenia · 02/12/2023 22:02

Mumsnet is full of anti Israel comments - I fell like 1% on here in my support for Israel. However the UK and US support Israel, one of the only free, reasonable and democratic countries when compared with terrible places like Iran which are our enemies and out to destroy us calling us "the Little Satan" and the like.

Chaitales · 02/12/2023 21:58

@ChickHenLittle @beigecartoon very dystopian. I know Israeli officials are in talks with Tiktok, meta etc to remove pro Palestinian content, news, videos, live footage (its in the news) . I wonder if MN is subject to same Censorship - would be a shame if it is.

beigecartoon · 02/12/2023 21:49

@ChickHenLittle no sure. Slightly baffling.

ChickHenLittle · 02/12/2023 21:44

Why the deletions? Posters were recounting personal experiences, I don't recall anything against talk guidelines.

Dinkydaisy1 · 02/12/2023 12:30

This reply has been deleted

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I was talking to an ex Reuters journalist the other day. Lovely elderly white Christian fellow. He was in Israel in 1967 as part of a news delegation. The annexation of land from Jordan was so fresh at the time that they were painting over road names etc while they were there. He said he was horrified at the hatred towards Arabs - his Israeli hosts, seeing as he was white, felt free to air their racist hate towards arabs, openly mistreated Arabs citizens and employees around them with not just casual dismissal but real mistreatment, with a fair bit of laughter in the evenings towards how the arabs were treated. Ironically, it made him an activist for Palestinian freedom when he returned to the UK.

Thereissomelight · 02/12/2023 11:59

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Dulra · 02/12/2023 10:39

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feralunderclass · 02/12/2023 10:03

@Dulra there was a poster on here who claimed that there was antisemitic chants, ripping down of hostage posters, and "celebrations of 7/10" at the first Dublin protest. I told her I was there and there was nothing of the sort happening. Strangely she didn't return to the thread again.

Thereissomelight · 02/12/2023 09:59

Everyone is being silenced by the anti-Semitic accusations.

It’ll take a while for more and more people to realise they’re being conned. The Israeli government is extremely dangerous. I’m no fan of violent, misogynistic fundamentalist Islamists but October 7th did not appear out of a vacuum (per the UN) but was a convenient trigger for what’s happening now.

beigecartoon · 02/12/2023 09:58

@Dulra been so impressed with what I have seen from Ireland.

Dulra · 02/12/2023 09:55

Thereissomelight · 01/12/2023 23:22

Those poor people. I can’t believe “the West” is doing this in full view of everyone.

One odd thing I’ve noticed is that although it’s on the news a lot no one talks about it at all. Not at work, not at the school gate. And it’s not that everyone isn’t super aware of it - lips tighten and heads shake if it comes up by accident (the radio on, say) - but the subject is immediately changed.

I am in Ireland and find the opposite. People do discuss it and openly criticise Israeli actions but this is likely because our government and opposition have been clear about their stance so maybe we are more comfortable discussing it and condemning the Israeli actions in Gaza. Our marches for Palestine have not been met with criticism or claims of anti semitism. People are horrified but the Irish have always supported the Palestinian cause definitely due to our own history. In the UK I can imagine it is a trickier environment to discuss it because you are more likely to have very opposing views on it.

feralunderclass · 02/12/2023 09:55

Depdawg · 02/12/2023 09:32

No, they have not ignored, they have placed the whole mess in some sort
Of context.
It's not black and white to everybody.

Show quote history

I don't see how they've been contextualised by posters like yourself. "Israel has a right to defend itself" needs to be contextualised against the immense ongoing harm, death and human rights violations of the Palestinian people. I will never forget the reaction of a few posters days after 7/10 saying "they should all just move to Jordan!" as if the Palestinians were inconvenient cockroaches that had to be swept out of the way to make way for Israel. Devoid of human feelings, memories, attachment to their land, with no human rights at all. Branded terrorists in the womb 💔

beigecartoon · 02/12/2023 09:55

@ChickHenLittle serial killer vibes from that post.

ChickHenLittle · 02/12/2023 09:53

Dulra · 02/12/2023 09:41

That is the post of a complete psychopath in my opinion. I hope when the dust settles it comes back to bite him big time. Wishing innocent people and children tortured and dead is not normal behaviour. Vile and evil, hate definitely corrupts. Will he be happy when all Palestinians are dead?

Show quote history

Totally agree. However what I find most chilling is "I'm one of the moderates".

Dulra · 02/12/2023 09:41

twilightmoon3 · 02/12/2023 05:36

This self-professed UK-born / US-raised Zionist Jew musician who writes for the Times of Israel/Newsweek and jdforward apparently, says the silent bit out loud. At least he is honest, I'll give him that. https://twitter.com/songsofyoni/status/1730465473060393369

To those who reply to me with pictures of the damage and destruction in Gaza as if this is supposed to be something that moves me, you should know how much I really, truly in my heart don't care. In fact, this is what the saying "I couldn't care less" was made for. When I see dead Gazans, I don't see dead Gazans – I see the dead Israelis who came before them. When I see suffering Gazans, I don't see suffering Gazans – I see the suffering Israelis being kept in dark dungeons underground. You see, Hamas's attack on October 7 was so successful that it blinded all of us to anything related to Gaza, Gazans or the troubles of either one. We only see blue and white now. And we are angrier than ever. Our blood is boiling hotter than ever. We care less about Gaza than ever. We care less about world opinion than ever. We want the@IDF
to use more firepower than ever. But most of all, we want our people back more than ever – and will do whatever it takes. Literally, anything. Nothing's off the table. Mercy is a foreign concept that has no application here. The opposite – we want our army to attack with whatever the opposite of mercy is. We're more insistent than ever that the war will continue into southern Gaza until it reaches all the way to Qatar where the Mossad has formally been instructed to draw up plans for taking out the cowardly Hamas leaders hiding like little rats. And every day this war continues, our feelings get stronger. Our anger gets stronger. Our thirst for revenge gets stronger. Our willingness to cause massive damage without the slightest care in the world in our quest to free our people has already gotten so strong – and will continue to get stronger – that Gaza will long for the wars of past which will seem like a trip to Disney in comparison. But most of all, we're more insistent than ever that Palestinians will never have a state anywhere near our borders. Those dreams died along with our people on October 7. There is a time for peace and a time for war. I strongly suggest to all the well-meaning diplomats who keep trying to pressure Israel into peace with the Palestinians to save their energies and focus their efforts elsewhere where they have a chance of success. Because now is a time for war. All-out war. War without mercy. And I'm one of the moderates.

That is the post of a complete psychopath in my opinion. I hope when the dust settles it comes back to bite him big time. Wishing innocent people and children tortured and dead is not normal behaviour. Vile and evil, hate definitely corrupts. Will he be happy when all Palestinians are dead?

Depdawg · 02/12/2023 09:32

feralunderclass · 02/12/2023 09:31

And people haven't minimised, they've completely ignored the 7 million Palestinians who have been displaced since 1948, the hundreds of thousands who've been murdered, tortured, imprisoned. Children shot dead. Detained with no charge.

Show quote history

No, they have not ignored, they have placed the whole mess in some sort
Of context.
It's not black and white to everybody.

feralunderclass · 02/12/2023 09:31

Depdawg · 02/12/2023 09:19

There is no legitimising the cruel removal of people.

Yet so many mimimise the fatal way in which Hamas removed people on 7/10. * *

Show quote history

And people haven't minimised, they've completely ignored the 7 million Palestinians who have been displaced since 1948, the hundreds of thousands who've been murdered, tortured, imprisoned. Children shot dead. Detained with no charge.

Motorina · 02/12/2023 09:22

Thereissomelight · 01/12/2023 23:22

Those poor people. I can’t believe “the West” is doing this in full view of everyone.

One odd thing I’ve noticed is that although it’s on the news a lot no one talks about it at all. Not at work, not at the school gate. And it’s not that everyone isn’t super aware of it - lips tighten and heads shake if it comes up by accident (the radio on, say) - but the subject is immediately changed.

Thank you for posting this. This is one of the things I've found really disconcerting. I'm old enough that I'm of the facebook generation, and I have a friendslist full of intelligent, articulate, aware people. Normally, any crisis in the world then they're posting. Brexit? Everyone's profile photo had a ring of EU stars. Ukraine? Blue and yellow flags and solidarity everywhere.

This? Precisely two posts. Both from me. Both fairly bland - one asking for resources on understanding the history, one shared a range of (non-controversial!) links I'd found. Both sunk without a single comment.

I can't believe that they're not listening or aware or watching. But radio silence.

mids2019 · 02/12/2023 09:21

@Thereissomelight

I agree. It is only the hard hitting news shows willing to take this subject on even more than Ukraine. I watched the 'last leg' on children 4 last night and despite 'topical edgy' humour Gaza was not mentioned. I think for a lot of left leaning comedians the Gaza situation has disarmed them and they do not dare to wander into criticism of Israel. Similarly the topic is not exactly fodder for cheery breakfast radio shows.

As for work I think obviously people read the news but having an opinion on a workforce of diverse beliefs may start an inflammatory argument so the subject is best avoided.

Depdawg · 02/12/2023 09:19

Dinkydaisy1 · 01/12/2023 22:44

And Pakistan is completely wrong about this and has been called out by Amnesty and the UN, and rightly so. Expelling a population who has made home in your country for various reasons is wrong. Pakistan may have its reasons stemming from its own complex geopolitical standing and also being heavily used by America as a military base to target Afghanistan, which is itself a target of decades games by Russia/USSR. Don't forget the Taliban was created by, financed and armed by America to fight US interests against Russia in the 80s. It's all a big military game of money, power and land control and civilians always play a heavy, heavy price. There is no legitimising cruel removal of a people.

Show quote history

There is no legitimising the cruel removal of people.

Yet so many mimimise the fatal way in which Hamas removed people on 7/10. * *

feralunderclass · 02/12/2023 09:08

Thanks for sharing @twilightmoon3 . I think it's better when people are honest, I met Jewish people in Israel like this and I had more respect for them for saying what was in their heart than pretending they cared. It's so incredibly sad though that people who want such good lives for themselves and their dc dont even view Palestinians as humans.
Israel, UK and US have huge reparations to make. The Israeli government have spoken, the UK and US have backed them up. This is a genocide, loud and clear. The world is watching and we bear witness.

BurbleBumleBleep · 02/12/2023 09:07

twilightmoon3 · 02/12/2023 05:36

This self-professed UK-born / US-raised Zionist Jew musician who writes for the Times of Israel/Newsweek and jdforward apparently, says the silent bit out loud. At least he is honest, I'll give him that. https://twitter.com/songsofyoni/status/1730465473060393369

To those who reply to me with pictures of the damage and destruction in Gaza as if this is supposed to be something that moves me, you should know how much I really, truly in my heart don't care. In fact, this is what the saying "I couldn't care less" was made for. When I see dead Gazans, I don't see dead Gazans – I see the dead Israelis who came before them. When I see suffering Gazans, I don't see suffering Gazans – I see the suffering Israelis being kept in dark dungeons underground. You see, Hamas's attack on October 7 was so successful that it blinded all of us to anything related to Gaza, Gazans or the troubles of either one. We only see blue and white now. And we are angrier than ever. Our blood is boiling hotter than ever. We care less about Gaza than ever. We care less about world opinion than ever. We want the@IDF
to use more firepower than ever. But most of all, we want our people back more than ever – and will do whatever it takes. Literally, anything. Nothing's off the table. Mercy is a foreign concept that has no application here. The opposite – we want our army to attack with whatever the opposite of mercy is. We're more insistent than ever that the war will continue into southern Gaza until it reaches all the way to Qatar where the Mossad has formally been instructed to draw up plans for taking out the cowardly Hamas leaders hiding like little rats. And every day this war continues, our feelings get stronger. Our anger gets stronger. Our thirst for revenge gets stronger. Our willingness to cause massive damage without the slightest care in the world in our quest to free our people has already gotten so strong – and will continue to get stronger – that Gaza will long for the wars of past which will seem like a trip to Disney in comparison. But most of all, we're more insistent than ever that Palestinians will never have a state anywhere near our borders. Those dreams died along with our people on October 7. There is a time for peace and a time for war. I strongly suggest to all the well-meaning diplomats who keep trying to pressure Israel into peace with the Palestinians to save their energies and focus their efforts elsewhere where they have a chance of success. Because now is a time for war. All-out war. War without mercy. And I'm one of the moderates.

What happens after Palestine is destroyed?
Will the world look at Israel with respect as the face of the West in the Middle East or consider it as a despot pariah not to be trusted?
It’s all good standing with Israel but when they eventually take Palestine as their own how will that helps Jews across the world. It’s 2023. Wiping Palestine out of existence will be seen and reacted to worldwide.

twilightmoon3 · 02/12/2023 08:28

A lot of people on all sides have lost their minds and their humanity. It's very sad and it seems to be without end. One outrage begets another outrage and damaged people go on to create nore damaged people. Forgiveness needs to be in there somewhere but I'm at a loss at how that even starts. But dropping 1 ton-high explosive bombs on one of the most densely populated regions in the world whilst their 'soldiers' can mostly shelter deep underground leads to the inexorable conclusion that it's not just about eradicating Hamas.

From Chris Hedge's latest substack.

This is not a war against Hamas. It is a war against Palestinians.

Israeli strikes are generated at a dizzying rate, many of them from a system called “Habsora” — The Gospel — which is built on artificial intelligence that selects 100 targets a day. The AI-system is described by seven current and former Israeli intelligence officials in an article by Yuval Abraham on the Israeli sites +972 Magazine and Local Call, as facilitating a “mass assassination factory.” Israel, once it locates what it assumes to be a Hamas operative from a cell phone, for example, bombs and shells a wide area around the target, killing and wounding tens, and at times hundreds of Palestinians, the article states.

“According to intelligence sources,” the story reads, “Habsora generates, among other things, automatic recommendations for attacking private residences where people suspected of being Hamas or Islamic Jihad operatives live. Israel then carries out large-scale assassination operations through the heavy shelling of these residential homes.”

https://chrishedges.substack.com/

The Chris Hedges Report | Substack

Covering US foreign policy, economic realities, and civil liberties in American society. Click to read The Chris Hedges Report, a Substack publication with tens of thousands of subscribers.

https://chrishedges.substack.com