Justifying the rape of women

Chest beating screams? What a callous and obnoxious tone. You do realise thousands of children are being starved and are dying? How dare you sneer at anyone reacting to a tragedy like this. It doesn't mean they didn't also react in a similar way to the atrocities in Israel. I certainly did. What is wrong with you?

Because it’s possible to despise Hamas while still wanting a long term peaceful solution that recognizes the rights of both Palestinians and Israelis.

Palestinians aren't Hamas, or even necessarily Hamas supporters, but how does that work in a war, especially when the enemy fighters have deliberately embedded themselves among the population? Not all Germans are Nazis so we just let the Nazis carry on attacking until we can sift all German Nazis from German non-Nazis? It's suicidal. Nobody seems to be offering a solution to how to stop Hamas launching terror attacks and rocket attacks. Even if Israel enforces the border and blocks Gazans from working in Israel they are accused of imprisonment and discrimination.

Rape is a disgusting tool of war. All armies, including the IDF, use it.

At least that one was jailed but they should have named the bastard and published his picture.

Thank you!

And, yes, he is an ex (nothing to do with politics - just your bog-standard "incompatible life plans").

We are, FWIW, both "okay", as in "living in prosperity, high-earners, rich country" - we are also both "not okay" as in: "deeply traumatised for life - there are some things therapy cannot just fix".

But we are both safe, very well paid, and ... that is a lot more than a lot of people - both Israeli and Palestinian civilians, people in Gaza, families of hostages, ... you name them - can say for themselves and their loved ones tonight!

As such, I am grateful to be where I am!

But also: I will NOT apologise for "flying off the handle" on this particular subject! I will NOT STAND for that level of cynicism!

I’m sorry that happened to you Heidi, it’s vile, disgusting and not excusable by anything, But I don’t think OP is using it as a propaganda thing. I think it’s a “we take rape very seriously unless it happens in x situation and then we shrug our shoulder and say it is what it is”.

I think thats true, I think people turn a blind eye to women being raped when it’s their “own side” doing it. But I also think it extends to other things, torture, detention, abuse of power etc. It’s repeated across cultures and time.

Op can you point at me at one comment exactly where a poster has
“how do they justify brutally raping them first? “ ? Cuz I’ve not seen a single comment justifying it.

Btw Israel idfs have raped Palestinian women as well

https://www.dailysabah.com/world/mid-east/deceased-israeli-soldier-boasted-about-raping-palestinian-woman/amp

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ending-censorship-idf-admits-officer-jailed-in-2017-raped-a-palestinian-woman/amp/

so in my case , I’m horrified by both scenarios

“Thanking” your post doesn’t quite seem right.

I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. Hope you and your (ex?) husband are both doing ok.

Nailed it.

I 100% think people can and should have concern for both sides. I certainly do.

ISIS were very keen on this too - all those poor Yazidi girls.
Not all soldiers use rape as a tool of war. It breaches the Geneva convention which sets out the rules of war but terrorists like Hamas, ISIS, Al Q etc could not care less about that, nor does Russia. This is why we must triumph over them and prevent their attempts to ruin our democracy and that of Israel.

Something I keep coming back to.. for the people whose sympathies lie with the Palestinians and think an eye for an eye as such and that the Palestinians have been pushed to act the way they have, how do you justify the brutal rape of women? Especially people who support women's rights...
I am absolutely fucking sick to the back teeth of people insinuating that Hamas and the Palestinian people are the same. That the Palestinian people are deserving of their obliteration because some, not all, voted in 2006.

how do you justify the brutal rape of women? Especially people who support women's rights...
Seriously, that is beyond goady. How fucking dare you insinuate that anyone except animals think rape is okay at any level. I hope you get help. I really do.

Well said Heidi. I'm sorry for what both you and your husband went through at the hands of the IDF.

I don't think many people are saying or implying that the individuals who suffered 'deserved it' but rather they experienced a truly awful response their government's treatment on a subset of other people. And now the Palestinians are suffering in turn the awful consequences of their leadership's hateful actions

Yes, this. Exactly!

1. Rape, as a weapon of war, is both unfathomable and ubiquitous
2. Rape, as a weapon of war, has supposedly* been used on 7 October (and it is inexcusable)
3. Rape, as a weapon of war, has also long been used, supposedly*, by settlers and the IDF against Palestinians (and it is inexcusable)

Where do you get your naive ideas from as to "how the IDF operate"? I am asking, personally, as a woman who, no, was not physically raped, but WAS told "well, I guess you are going to have to put out if you want us to let that husband of yours go!" by IDF soldiers - they were not after me; they were just after maximal humiliation for my then husband (and I told them to go fuck themselves - my husband would rather drop dead, as would I!). I hope they rot in hell!

Also ...

1. the indiscriminate bombing of civilians, including children, is unfathomable
2. no, you do NOT get away with this by randomly bringing up "but, rape, though" as justification - "your" side does that, too! And - whatever the "other side" does - neither rape nor the targetting (simply not giving a shit counts, too!) of civilians is acceptable!

Finally: go sit in a fucking corner and hang your head in shame for daring to use "rape" as a tool for political propaganda! Do you have any fucking idea, sitting safely in your chair, spouting propaganda for your far-right government ... do you have ANY IDEA AT ALL how fucking scary this is?

Because: I think I might have at least an inkling. It did not HAPPEN to be - but the THREAT thereof did - and it was done by the IDF. And I have never before or after been so fucking terrified in my life!

So, just: HOW DARE YOU???!!!

• I believe women - I am also absolutely not interested in being sued for libel!

What I struggle to understand is how so many people can't seem to hold any space at all for the absolute horror of the acts of 7th October. It's a total side issue to them, 'yeah that's bad, but ...'

So do you think people can only feel concern for one side or the other? Not both? It’s not the men who dragged the bloodied teen and the others away that people are worried about. It’s the Palestinians who are caught in the middle. Do what you will to Hamas but collective punishments should stop.

Agree. Eloquently put.

I don’t think OP is saying Palestinians are hamas. I think she’s saying that there doesn’t seem to be much compassion for Israeli victims. I think she’s right and I don’t get it. I’m not white and seeing Palestinian girls of my DD’s age covered in blood is painful, reading about older girls being raped and murdered because they happened to go to a rave (just like my own DD will one day) is painful.

Theres no real willingness to articulate what happened to those women and girls.

I'm Jewish and think people are mostly saying that it is not suprising that Hamas' launched some sort of attack, but not 'justifying' the specific form that attack took, which was of course truly appalling. I don't think many people are saying or implying that the individuals who suffered 'deserved it' but rather they experienced a truly awful response their government's treatment on a subset of other people. And now the Palestinians are suffering in turn the awful consequences of their leadership's hateful actions.

I've seen multiple posts over the past couple of days about how nice it is that they allegedly are treating their captives well. One poster @sidesplittinglol even said in a now deleted post that the Hamas attackers were defending themselves.

Literally this. Right from when it happened. That's if they weren't celebrating, which many were.

Because Palestinians are not Hamas? Really, fgs. Palestinian women experience incredibly high rates of SGBV already, from the very same people that carried it out over the border. It is possible to care about more than one thing at once. I know the internet finds that hard.

So yes, most of us feel the same sympathy with all women everywhere who experience sexual violence in conflict. It's the oldest recorded war weapon, by the way. It happens in every single conflict, and within armed forces themselves, by state and non state actors. That included in The Troubles, nowhere is immune.