Justifying the rape of women

I was at some of the London protests. People were in tears, just as we were at the Iraq war protests and so many others. I was with a group of Jewish, Christian and agnostic friends some holding Palestinian flags, some holding aboriginal and other colonised land flags.

There was no celebration. It was tears and a genuine grief. I know most of my friends, family and people I know have been struggling for the past few weeks, feeling guilty at eating, putting kids to bed, going about normal lives, while realising there are thousands of families not able to do that anymore. It's living through a daily funeral yet still having to go thru daily life like nothings changed. It's heart breaking. There is no celebration.

Of course people arent celebrating others dying. But theres enough posters flooding mn just now trying to convince you otherwise.

So when I hear people have been "celebrating" October 7th as I think many news outlets had also reported, does that just refer to the worldwide protests to free palestine? Or have people been genuinely celebrating? I can't tell the truth from all the lies

I was at the first demonstration in Dublin, NO ONE was "celebrating" . Is it really so hard to believe that people care about human rights? I honestly despair... You can't care about the human rights of Palestinians without being labelled "pro Hamas", "antisemitic" or "celebrating!". There were grown men literally crying.

SeulementUneFois

I didn't know this. Just to better understand, how exactly are they celebrating? As in praising the atrocities?
I don't understand how celebrating the deaths and kidnappings will gain sympathy for the Palestinians. If anything in many peoples eyes it will justify the genocide of the gazans.
Then again I've also seen some pro Israeli supporters praising Israeli government for cutting off water, food etc. Some even boasting about their easy access to water to mock the situation.
Clearly there's sick people on both sides. Though I've seen more people quick to ask Palestinian supporters to condemn these acts, yet no one asks the other side

I saw that Onion headline. One of the few things that’s made me crack a smile over the past couple of weeks!

Agree. Repeated threads to remind people that genocide is justified, just in case we forgot

There was a brilliant The Onion headline that made me laugh as much as it made me cry. Could be the title of one of these MN threads too

I honestly think people just don't understand what the IDF is like, what life is like for Palestinians day to day. Here is an extract from a guardian article about the killing of children by the IDF.

In southern Gaza, the killings take place in a climate that amounts to a form of terror against the population. Random fire into Rafah and Khan Yunis has claimed hundreds of lives, including five children shot as they sat at their school desks. Many others have died when the snipers must have known who was in their sights - children playing football, sitting outside home, walking back from school. Almost always "investigations" amount to asking the soldier who pulled the trigger what happened - often they claim there was a gun battle when there was none - and presenting it as fact.

I'm not quoting this to excuse anything. I am quoting it to show that IDF don't give a fuck. They are above the law and they act as they want. Sometimes there is an odd prosecution which leads to a few months in prison so Israel can say they are doing something but most often their isn't.

Palestinian civilians, normal people have to live with this every day. Knowing that their children can be taken away at the pull of a trigger and nothing will ever be done about it. There is nothing they can ever do about it. The IDF don't just sit their guarding Israelis, they terrorise Palestinian people all of time and they get away with it. There is no 'good side' in this, just innocent civilians who get hurt.

@Itsaharddlife

FYI in Ireland any and all posters of the hostages are ripped up. Saw some earlier today.
As you know Ireland is the biggest supporter of the Palestinians in Europe.
There's been many demonstrations in their favour, starting with celebratory ones after the 7th.

i’ve noticed it’s the same pro-Israel posters that keep starting new random threads for exactly that purpose. @Pollyputhekettleon has just launched a new thread on Qatar (who she/he seems very strangely obsessed with). It’s all just distraction tactics from the ongoing genocide.

@Worddance

Did you really? Did you actually react like this to hearing about the atrocities committed by Hamas?
What did you do? Anything? Did you even write a comment on the internet, like you did above?

Or were you actually in spirit on the side of the immediate celebrations??

And yes Hamas is representative of the Palestinians - they democratically elected it. With its manifesto of eradicating all Jews.

And don't say oh most Palestinians are under age they didn't vote for Hamas. By that standard Biden isn't representative of the USA, as if you add minors and Republicans there's more people who didn't vote for him

Agree. They seem deliberately incendiary and a distraction from the genocide

I feel like most evils are a man thing at the moment. Literally sick to my core at all the barbaric behaviour and actions in the world right now, yet we can make bastard robots, get people on the moon but not broker peace.

I feel these type of threads are a way to distract from the atrocities. Who on earth is going to say rape is justified?

I'm talking about people who have described the attacks as exhilarating and a triumph of power. The university professor from Cornell in US who said it was exhilerating and you'd have to be not human to feel the same.

Yes, well, obviously that’s messed up but I don’t understand why you’re asking the people on this board to account for it? I mean maybe there have been posts claiming it’s all very exhilarating, and I just haven’t seen them because they were deleted, but I find it a bit odd all the same.

Factually, Israel have been killing Palestinians for years. Torturing adults, children, women. Raping women in detention centres and sexually abusing detained children. Horrific human rights violations. Do you think they've been doing these things in an 'acceptable' way? None of it is acceptable or OK. I'm honestly not sure why anyone would think any type of abuse is OK?

I haven't read/seen anyone justifying the murder/rape of Israeli civilians. If there are people genuinely ok with what happened on 7th october and think its a reason to celebrate then i honestly worry about this world. I was disgusted when I read about the women tearing down posters of Israeli hostages.

I don't personally think anyone with any sense of compassion or humanity will justify the killing of civilians on either side. However the fact remains that this "conflict" did not start on 7th October. For years the plight of the Palestinians has been ignored. Atrocities have been committed and reported (though not widely) by IDF soldiers against Palestinian men women and children. Yet these have always been ignored. I wish everyone was quick to condemn when these atrocities are committed by the other side.

Excellent post.

I ultimately believe that many men would rape given the chance. If society broke down, women would be in serious harm.

Well said.

On another post, someone said even mentioning the word "colonised" or "occupation" is the new "rats" "nazism" "the new holocaust", suggesting that anyone who even uses those words is akin to those calling for the holocaust

Btw, I don't think I've seen any posts in the last 2 weeks "justifying" rape. Discussions about what and ifs happened and why, and political arguments, but nowhere has anyone justified rape.

I will have to hide this thread now, I guess!

Even just posting what I did ... I am having a panic th and experiencing the mother of all flashbacks right now! I am typing this, literally, in type ... gasp ... type mode!

If I have ever changed the mind of anybody at all. On anything. Ever.

LET IT BE THIS!

It is NOT OKAY to abuse "rape, as a weapon of war" for propaganda!

I will try and respond to anyone who disagrees tomorrow or so - but just ... literally too fucking upset now! I will say things I do not actually mean if I keep on responding right now!

It's possible to recognise that oppression breeds terrorism without thinking that this means innocent Israelis deserved what happened to them. I wish that people in your position could recognise that there's no hierarchy of suffering and it's not a competition. The rest of the world is not in your entrenched position and may be capable of compassion without taking sides. However the more Israel takes this kind of awful revenge, the more people with humanity will grieve and agitated for the children being killed in increasing numbers, simply because it is happening now, sanctioned by the global community, and could still be stopped or at least paused.