Justifying the rape of women

I'm so sorry about your friend Vivian. I can't stop thinking about those poor hostages. The survivors of the festival and the kibbutz attacks, as well as their extended families and friends, must be deeply traumatized for life. I feel traumatized by it from a safe distance. 💕

Your posts are making me feel a bit ill. Why so reluctant to believe women?

On Saturday 7 October, Israel – especially civilians in 21 rural communities and cities near the Gaza border – woke up to the worst nightmare since the establishment of the State of Israel 75 years ago. Hamas armed terrorists murdered, tortured, and raped innocent civilians, men, women, elderly people, children, and babies. More than 1,300 people were killed, and at least 222 people, including women and children, were taken hostage. Among them is my dear friend Vivian Silver of Kibbutz Be’eri, a longtime peace activist. As part of that well-planned vicious attack on Israel, on that Saturday morning, Hamas terrorists also raided an outdoor rave near Kibbutz Be’eri and shot and killed 200 people, who came from around the country for a celebration of love and peace.

As the days passed, the scale of the atrocities and war crimes perpetrated by Hamas continued to unfold. Young women who were at the outdoor rave reported having witnessed brutal rapes of women. These testimonies were corroborated by horrific images published by Hamas on social media the very same day.

It is something of a theme so much so an open letter has signed here

An open letter signed by dozens of women’s groups from Israel and around the world criticises the failure of UN Women to speak out about the Hamas Pogrom of 7 October. ‘It is unthinkable that a UN agency responsible for women’s rights ignores the abduction of women, babies, girls, children and men from their homes, committing war crimes against women and children, and the murder of over a thousand innocent civilians.’ Hamutal Gouri, one of the signatories, explains the deep sense of betrayal felt by Jewish women.

https://fathomjournal.org/opinion-why-dont-israeli-women-count-for-un-women/

You can’t feel ok with being part of the problem surely?

wow, on this basis literally no rapist would ever be covicted ever. Of course the below reuters article doesn't count since it was Israeli forensic teams. Of course we know every single Israeli is 100% compliant with the Israeli government and will tell whatever lies they are asked to say. Being very sarcastic there. Have you ever actually met any Israelis????

Honestly, I don't know what to make of the posters being taken down in London. I'm not sure what purpose they serve being posted around Tube stations anyway, it's not like we're going to bump into one of the hostages at St Pancras Station...? (I wish it was so simple!) I can understand pro-Palestine folk feeling it's just goady. But again, maybe I'm missing something.

I really can't beleive people are justifying this behaviour. What sick sick people. What is 'goady' about trying every single thing you can do to get your son, daughter, parent or spouse returned.

I guess if your family member was kidnapped you would just yawn and not do anything in case you 'goaded' the kidnappers friends and relatives???

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-forensic-teams-describe-signs-torture-abuse-2023-10-15/

Sympathy @Maireas , I can imagine how awful it must have been, that's why I can't understand why people want to see actual pictures or videos as proof!

@Maireas , I avoided the images as much as I could, just the descriptions were enough for me!!
But I still can't stop thinking about it!

I am not minimising the killing of innocent civilians. It is absolutely awful.

I will say that the British journalist who watched the footage has not commented on any footage of rape. She has given a short video on the skynews article of what she had seen.

https://news.sky.com/video/israel-gaza-war-boys-witness-fathers-murder-in-raw-footage-screened-by-israel-of-hamas-attack-12991530

As per the BBC article - The IDF has released a document that they say was from Hamas and in that there are instructions to rape. As per the article, there was no footage of rape.

The footage and instructions have not been verified but personally I believe the footage is real.

It is not about what I think happened it is about what has happened. If you aren't using reputable news sources what are you using? No reputable news source has confirmed that women were raped and there is no footage of this. They have only confirmed that certain Israeli ministers have made claims.

What about the poor German women who was paraded about naked on a truck ?
I believe this was widely reported, I'm not going to say anymore about what happened to her as it's sickening, and I will definitely not be searching out the headlines as it's too upsetting for me but even me who avoids the news and sm heard and saw it reported.

I'm sorry I can't read that full article. I am just going to be trusting reputable news outlets. The UK journalists can find out the information and I will take it from them. I am not here to source out who said what and whether it has been verified.

There isn't any footage of the rape and channel 4 fact-check has said it is still investigating these claims.

Sometimes I'll dip into Israeli news and Arab news to get an insight into different opinions but I am not just going to believe something because someone said it. It's not about women, it's just about people in general. People on both sides will ofcourse be bias, showing me a video of an Israeli woman saying something is not proof and showing me a video of a Palestinian woman saying something is not proof.

I also don't know what happened with the hospital in Gaza, it might or might not have happened. It is the same with this, it might not or might not have happened. Right now, I am not going to get angry about something that might or might not have happened.

I will wait for reputable news outlets to respond first.

thats really horrible. I have lots of Jewish and Israeli friends and have not seen anything like this. A lot of concern and sadness about the loss of life in Gaza but no celebrating.

I'm sorry I can't read that full article. I am just going to be trusting reputable news outlets. The UK journalists can find out the information and I will take it from them. I am not here to source out who said what and whether it has been verified.

There isn't any footage of the rape and channel 4 fact-check has said it is still investigating these claims.

Sometimes I'll dip into Israeli news and Arab news to get an insight into different opinions but I am not just going to believe something because someone said it. It's not about women, it's just about people in general. People on both sides will ofcourse be bias, showing me a video of an Israeli woman saying something is not proof and showing me a video of a Palestinian woman saying something is not proof.

I also don't know what happened with the hospital in Gaza, it might or might not have happened. It is the same with this, it might not or might not have happened. Right now, I am not going to get angry about something that might or might not have happened.

I will wait for reputable news outlets to respond first.

It is sickening and most in the compilation I had the misfortune of seeing appeared to be quite young but it shows how easily influenced people are to buy into propaganda and dismiss harm and wrong doing when perpetrated by ‘their’ side.

Your posts are making me feel a bit ill. Why so reluctant to believe women?

On Saturday 7 October, Israel – especially civilians in 21 rural communities and cities near the Gaza border – woke up to the worst nightmare since the establishment of the State of Israel 75 years ago. Hamas armed terrorists murdered, tortured, and raped innocent civilians, men, women, elderly people, children, and babies. More than 1,300 people were killed, and at least 222 people, including women and children, were taken hostage. Among them is my dear friend Vivian Silver of Kibbutz Be’eri, a longtime peace activist. As part of that well-planned vicious attack on Israel, on that Saturday morning, Hamas terrorists also raided an outdoor rave near Kibbutz Be’eri and shot and killed 200 people, who came from around the country for a celebration of love and peace.

As the days passed, the scale of the atrocities and war crimes perpetrated by Hamas continued to unfold. Young women who were at the outdoor rave reported having witnessed brutal rapes of women. These testimonies were corroborated by horrific images published by Hamas on social media the very same day.

It is something of a theme so much so an open letter has signed here

An open letter signed by dozens of women’s groups from Israel and around the world criticises the failure of UN Women to speak out about the Hamas Pogrom of 7 October. ‘It is unthinkable that a UN agency responsible for women’s rights ignores the abduction of women, babies, girls, children and men from their homes, committing war crimes against women and children, and the murder of over a thousand innocent civilians.’ Hamutal Gouri, one of the signatories, explains the deep sense of betrayal felt by Jewish women.

https://fathomjournal.org/opinion-why-dont-israeli-women-count-for-un-women/

You can’t feel ok with being part of the problem surely?

@saffronsoup absolutely sickening

This thread suggests Palestinians raped Jews when there is no independent proof.