Justifying the rape of women

There are some despicable posts on here.

Perhaps out of respect for the victims and their families?

It's traumatic enough for me, I wouldn't want to know these women personally and see the painful and degrading way they were slaughtered.

@SomeCatFromJapan Just to clarify, are you saying you saw footage of Hamas raping women that has since been taken down?

@SomeCatFromJapan Why was the footage taken down?

There are thousands of videos from what's happening in Gaza that are equally horrific and they haven't been taken down.

Israel's motto! (Just replace the word "Jews" with the word "Palestinians".

The trouble is that the people who "could have written it" in your terms are not longer around to speak.

Oh dear, I hadn't realised that what you're after is a firsthand account by a woman who was raped.

You do realise that it wasn't just sex?

That they were killed, during, before, or after being raped?

That they were mutilated, during, before, or after being raped?

That hordes of "ordinary Gazans" flocked in to help themselves to trophies - limbs, eyes, scalps - to flaunt when they got home, presumably to the cheers of the same crowds that spat on Shani Louk's increasingly broken body (I can't help wondering just how her legs got to bend the other way round when the knees were intact when she was first loaded onto the truck)?

The corpses were defiled with glee.

I suspect even Hamas got more than they bargained for. What was meant to be a semi-military operation to kill and take captives turned into a free-for-all.

@VeronicaM27 what were your thoughts on the accompanying image?

I appreciate that that, too, could theoretically have come from anywhere. But what I will say convinced me about the veracity of at least the majority of the claims around October 7 is that the fucking idiot terrorists were putting footage all over social media in real time, so I saw quite a bit before it was taken down/blurred/censored and before the inevitable propaganda and minimisation began.
What I saw was definitely enough for me to find the rest of the claims at least plausible.

@GrandmasMeatloaf

That could perfectly describe Israel's response to everything they're doing in Gaza right now.

I am just going to put this here…

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not [ the attacker’s] fault.
And if it was, they didn't mean it.
And if they did, [ the jews] deserved it.

@armchairactivist1 I'm sorry, my post was a right rant and far too emotional. I think I need a break from watching, viewing, reading and discussing this subject (I am aware of my privilege of being able to do that). Every day I just see saw between the horror and I can feel myself getting manipulated and I hate it. It just feels like everyone bun fighting about it is playing directly into the hands of the 'divide and conquer' world stage and I honestly think we are being forced to be partisan about it all. I also know everyone, including you, has a right to discuss and ask questions about it. Sorry again.

@SomeCatFromJapan I've just read the eyewitness statement. I'm not trying to be awkward but there's nothing there to verify the source. Anyone could have written it. Has it been picked up by anyone in the mainstream media, who could perhaps verify it?

@VeronicaM27 if you scroll up, I have posted a twitter link containing an eyewitness statement.
But do bear in mind that the women will largely be dead.

Why are you asking random Mumsnetters whether they justify the brutal rape of women by Hamas?

There is no justification for any of it. None. The only people we should be demanding explanation from and punishing is the leaders of Hamas and the leaders of Israel and the leaders from the Arab world and leaders of the West funnelling (mostly normal people's money, that people work for and then are taxed on) their tsunamis of money to prop up and and arm terrorist cells and opposing governments with guns and bayonets and huge bombs and chemical weapons and then these men send to war the normal people, the immature, undeveloped 18 and 19 and 20 year olds who less than 5 weeks ago were making tiktoks and thinking about who they fancy, to discharge in the face of other normal people who were just sat in a place they called home, trying to live a life they didn't even choose to be born in.

These men (and I don't give a shit about the obvious misandry, because all they key players I have seen so far ARE men), with their egos and thirst for blood and land and money and power and bullshite 'martyrdom'. They are responsible for the rapes, beheading, stabbings, bombs, torture. They are responsible for sending teenagers (both Hamas and IDF) to certain death. They are responsible for laying out to these normal people who are now being given the name of 'terrorist' or 'fighter' that they can rape, torture and behead their enemy in the name of Allah, or God, or Palestine or Israel, in the name of money and power. It's disgusting. Mumsnetters haven't done this. And instead we are all arguing and turning on each other because we have no power ourselves to stop or start any of it. None. We don't even have any power to find out the truth because the propaganda is so strong.

@Alcemeg Have any of the female victims said they were raped? Any first hand accounts? Again, not saying there isn't. I just haven't been able to find anything.

What would you count as "verifiable evidence" @VeronicaM27 ?

@SomeCatFromJapan You are asking us to believe women were raped without providing any verifiable evidence that they were.

Again, I'm not saying that rapes didn't happen. I'm just saying that I'm not willing to say they definitely did without proof. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

I've seen some supposed friendly fire footage but it was night vision and the attack on the festival happened during the day so was clearly nonsense.

I see we've been steered away from discussion the raped women though.

@Alcemeg The video I shared provides sources from the Israeli media that appear to confirm that the Israeli forces fired on their own people, including firing tanks into their houses which would explain why some hostages were so badly burned.

The only thing I'm trying to achieve is finding the truth.

https://www.firstpost.com/world/israel-claims-to-have-slain-60-odd-senior-and-mid-level-hamas-leaders-now-hunting-for-combatant-commanders-13364562.html

According to this article 60 Hamas killed.

Out of 10,500 I calculate this as 0.57%

@Popolop Yes they seem to be good at firing at people indiscriminately no matter who they are!

What I keep coming back to is the continual bombing of children. Over 4,000 dead, countless horrifically injured and god knows how many are still under the rubble, either dead or still alive and suffering. There is just zero justification for that. They are monsters.

Please can you share your source for "99% or so" and how this is being measured?

You literally just shared some wanker denying the rapes etc, was that intentional?

Did you see the links shared last night, and what do you make of them?

There are always casualties from "friendly fire" in any conflict, are you saying that it accounts for most of the 7 Oct deaths?

Last but not least, what are you trying to achieve here? I'm trying to get my head round it.