Justifying the rape of women

I agree to an extent, but both sides are playing that game.
Similar to Hamas putting out that video of the 3 hostages blaming Netanyahu. Didn't israel claim they were coerced into it

Yes I was very surprised by how well they looked. I was expecting them to look terrified/beaten etc. Apart from the one guy who looked as if he was in pain (I wouldn't dare call it shame considering his actions) they all seemed like they were just having a regular conversation

Does nobody care that the publication of such videos are in contravention of the Geneva Convention precisely because there is no way to tell if there is/ or to what level of coeration is involved?

Yes, I was fascinated by their whole demeanour. I was trying to work out if they seemed to have been beaten into "confessions" or drugged, but on the whole they just seem fairly relaxed and matter-of-fact, unless I'm missing some unfamiliar cultural cues. At the end, they seem very bitter about being tricked. I doubt the promises of untold riches were ever sincere, but it was probably a highly seductive carrot to dangle in front of village kids with no prospects in life.

They sound so robotic.
10,000 dollars and an apartment for someone's life.

@HeidiInTheBigCity It would be really interesting to know the nuances of sabia, if you ever do find out! You're welcome to blame the question on me 😉

@Itsaharddlife I found the interviews with the Hamas terrorists grotesquely fascinating because they were so blasé about it all. But from 09:38 onwards, they're asked about violating Islamic law and one of them (Ahmad Majad Ahmad Abu Hamid) does look a wee bit sheepish about it. Or am I misinterpreting his body language?

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Thank you for clarifying!

Oh gosh, please don't think that I confuse Islam with Hamas! I have the greatest respect for true Islamic principles. The Nova festival, as a psytrance celebration, would have been full of people who felt the same way: there are overlaps with Sufism (transcendent ecstatic trance, honouring the mystery that unites us all) 💗

Hamas and nutters like that woman are something else. They distort religion to serve their twisted agenda. And of course there are nutters on all sides!

While I do not agree with your "it is quite possible ..." worst possible interpretation ...

I DO agree with your take on "cultural knowledge, as well as mere vocabulary and grammar" matter in translation!

I DO speak Arabic ... and, for the record, this is my first ever time having encountered the vocabulary of captives / hostages / prisoners of war / etc. at any level of detail. I am trying to learn it as I go. (DO ask me how to differentiate between a battle tank and an APC in Arabic though - I learned that back in 2001, along with "what even is the difference, actually" on a conceptual level.)

But, from the transcript, the translation of the video in question seems to be:

“No, no, she is a [sabia], leave her, leave her, she is a [sabia]. Take her back, take her back, she is a [sabia]. Go back to your place!”

Whatever the actual nuances of "sabia" are - and I am trying to learn them; not that easy when you are doing it imposing on people asking "yeah, hi, so ... you know how we are friends and Arabic is your mother tongue and ... so ... like ... your people are being subjected to what is probably a genocide, but ... yeah, like, anyway: I have sort of a question on the nuanced meaning of one particular word on the grounds of one particular person posting on the internet"

People think you are bonkers when you ask them that, given the circumstances!

Ok I was a bit shocked and honestly offended when you posted the "god given" crap". But after watching bits of the video of that women I understand why you said this.
To clarify yes she is an absolute nutter. I'd say something a lot worse if my wouldn't be taken down for it. Please do not listen to the sick individuals, they in no way represent Islam, she has I think in points supposedly quotes the Quran to justify this position. Its absolutely wrong. There is no where in the Quran where it states rape is justified .

"You will find a people who claim to have totally given themselves to God. Leave them to what they claim to have given themselves… Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the spoils, and do not be cowardly."
These are the teachings of Islam.

I'm not sure, I'm just proposing it as a possibility based on what seems to have happened (see e.g. here; what happened to Shani Louk; firsthand reports from Nova festival survivors, etc...) and stuff like this, which might just be a random nutter. I can't pretend to have any idea what goes through their heads.

"Hamas consider it their God-given duty to rape and humiliate female prisoners of war."

Sorry I haven't been following a lot of the previous messages but came across this and just wanted a clarification.
Is this something Hamas have stated or maybe implied? That God has allowed/instructed them to rape female prisoners?

Realistically, given the nature of Hamas and their dirty tactics, and their clearly stated local and global intentions, how do you think Israel should respond without inviting more suffering to both Israel and Gaza?

That would be fine if we saw the same scepticism applied in both directions. Instead, whole threads are started and kept alive by a constant barrage of images and statistics hastily copy/pasted from social media, as though this is just a Facebook feed and no one else has either access to news sources or the capacity to find things out for themselves. It gets a bit wearing, e.g. last night when someone posted a news story about an 11-year-old girl raped by Israelis, as though this was the gang rape of a Palestinian girl. If they'd even bothered to read the article, they'd have found it was reporting on an IDF officer's daughter who had sex with numerous blokes on the army base by passing herself off as an older teen. Not great, obviously, but not the shit-stirring story the poster intended.

This is a bit of a sidetrack, but...

I don't speak Arabic, but I have worked as an interpreter in other languages. Sometimes a literal translation does not convey the cultural connotations of a word, so important to grasp its full meaning.

According to the link you posted:
He uses the Arabic term “sabia”, translating to “female captive” or “female prisoner of war.

From what I've seen, it's quite possible that Hamas consider it their God-given duty to rape and humiliate female prisoners of war. (It certainly looks like it, and there was a thread posted last night with a nutty Muslim woman apparently declaring this.) Somehow, I can't really see them just offering their female prisoners a nice cup of tea.

So many could be reported under "hate speech" and "personal attack" that I think we have to show the poor MN moderators some mercy! Rather them than me trying to keep things civilised on this forum.

I totally agree. It's just so upsetting.

Reuters seems to disagree as do other news outlets.

They are talking about one specific incident that isn't even what's being discussed here, which is that many of the now dead victims were allegedly raped.

@Bigminnie1 I think some of the posters engaging in this kind of behaviour and controversial questioning posts are not who they say they are and are out to cause trouble.

@PurpleCrocs3 it's the constant faux naivety... the constant questioning... the refusal to acknowledge and the constant coming back asking for more and more proof. The insinuation that all or some of the terrible events that happened on Oct 7th are lies.
On so many threads, not just this one.

And that's why I am disgusted.

@Bigminnie1 Since when does asking for a credible source equal denying what happened?

I think in a time like this with so much disinformation flying we should all be making sure we get our information from credible sources.

Because various characters are suggesting that this is an ok consequence following 7/10.

Reuters seems to disagree as do other news outlets.

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-captured-woman-mistranslates-captor-threatening-rape-2023-11-08/

You actually need to stop now with your denial of what happened. It's really quite disgusting.

On whether Hamas raped women when they invaded, it is possible that may be proven as there might be DNA from their semen in the bodies (I don't think they used condoms) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/08/israel-rape-charges-hamas-terrorists-war/. Hamas did have go pro cameras on so I believe some of their actions like murdering families including babies are almost certainly proven. However the extremist mindset and with 50% of those in Gaza under 18 means young children even of 10 can have been brought up to be a bit like those cubs of the caliphate under ISIS - that does not mean it is okay to do this (ti is not and yet another reason Israel should prevail) but means it is no surprise as to what they might do.