Justifying the rape of women

As hard as it is to watch, thank you for sharing. I think I owe it to all those affected to watch and listen. I hate thinking about all those women still being held and what is happening to them....

I really haven't seen anyone discussing this. I fully believe that GBV occurred during the atrocities of 7th Oct. I fervently hope that those who carried out this and all the atrocities on that day are brought to justice. However, I do not believe it justifies the killing of thousands of innocent people and the disregard for international law as stated by numerous UN and human rights organisation. The people dying under the rubble are not the same as those who perpetrated the atrocities. Even after over a month there still seems to be a lack of acceptance that people can abhor Hamas and their activities, while still finding Israel's action unacceptable.

Welcome to 2023, where 'Can a woman have a penis?' is not up for debate, but 'Is anally raping a woman an acceptable protest against the actions of the Israeli government?' is something happily discussed on mumsnet.

There has been a further press conference now held in Israel with images and eyewitness statements detailing the sexual violence:

https://twitter.com/mrconfino/status/1724385046583234841

Ok but by her own admission she did not see these pregnant women cut open, babies beheaded. There is no one fitting these descriptions in the official Israeli victims lists. There is so much misinformation, and the Israeli regime is using this to excuse mass killings. They spread the 40 babies rumour, and then the backtracking was quietly filed away.

I actually posted a Washington Post article on here which describes what happened to the pregnant woman.

Did you actually bother to read what the witness said. At the kibbutz and shared over WhatsApp as it happened a mother screamed that hamas had shot her baby in the head.
She was there. She said' ‘I want peace but after this sadistic, perverted attack I don’t know if it’s possible. What they did was beyond words, beyond Nazis even. The most twisted, demonic creatures of mythology don’t come close to what they did.
‘They cut open pregnant women and killed babies still attached. They tortured babies and beheaded children. They tied people up then burned them alive. Even the Nazis wanted to kill quickly – these men took their time torturing children.
'They are the most violent organisation in the history of mankind, and this cannot be our future. They cannot be in the world we give our children."

She was there. That is her recount. You were not there. You were not there. You doubt her story. Why? Why is your hatred allowing you to not believe a witness statement?

Ok but by her own admission she did not see these pregnant women cut open, babies beheaded. There is no one fitting these descriptions in the official Israeli victims lists. There is so much misinformation, and the Israeli regime is using this to excuse mass killings. They spread the 40 babies rumour, and then the backtracking was quietly filed away.

What her firsthand experience does describe is the Israeli army showing up 12 hours later and firing missiles into her house and safe room. The amount of civilian deaths caused by the IDF on the 7th is becoming clearer, from the firsthand accounts to the their own admissions of using helicopters to fire on festival goers to the tanks shooting missiles into homes and burning them down.

Imagine leaning so much to one side that you bash the credibility of victims on the other side. They are just hateful hypocrites.

Thank you for sharing the story of a survivor. Sadly, there are those on here who will not believe that what she says, babies cut from pregnant mothers babies tortured and killed, families slaughtered because they didn't see it. Others will say 'daily fail ' story so much be made up.
That mother bears testimonial to what happened, it was sick and twisted

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/article-12724567/One-survivor-Israeli-terror-attacks-tells-incredible-story-hopes-peace-neighbour-shot-one-terrorist-grabbed-Kalashnikov-shot-dead-alive-series-miracles.html

I’m more concerned that it might be fake, I mean who can tell at this point?

There are videos coming out of Ukraine with Russian soldiers saying Putin is an asshole. And videos coming out of Russia with Ukrainian soldiers saying Zelenksy is an asshole. And here we have Hamas saying the Hamas leaders are assholes…

Many years ago, in a very different life, I was married to a Jewish man. We’re rarely in touch now, but he emailed me last night with some family news. I asked him about the current situation and he wrote:

*Yep, antisemitism and Islamophobia are both on the rise and it’s worrying. But just remember:

1. Hamas are cunts
2. The Israeli government (and its far-right fans) are cunts
3. Almost everyone else in Israel/Gaza/Palestine is a victim of the above (and of history).*

I think that just about sums it up.

I’m sorry for not believing that a ceasefire is in anyone’s interests right now, but don’t get me wrong, I long for a solution.

Nova festival was a celebration of unity above differences. I saw a Middle Eastern peace negotiator saying that the only hope for a way forward is if the current situation is recognised by everyone as the lowest point below which we can go no further, a bit like alcoholics have to reach absolute bottom before they make changes.

If the Hamas interviews are real, and they really are disillusioned with their leaders, then perhaps there is a way forward after all. Israel’s leaders have hardly covered themselves in glory either, as acknowledged by so many Israelis. Can humanity find a way to say once and for all, “Fuck this shit”? If so, those kids at Nova were not dancing in vain.

I think you'll find that they don't apply to terror groups.

I believe the Geneva conventions are hugely important and its vital they apply equally to all.

Personally I have commented about blatant breaches by releasing videos by the Israeli, Russian and Ukrainian governments as well as Hamas.

There is no conflict with my horror and compassion for innocent victims on all sides and frankly its disgusting to suggest so.

I don’t know how they can deny it either

It’s distressing. I can’t see what would lead anyone to post as they do.

@Noelectricheating Exactly.

I don't know how any human can watch accounts like those from the Nova festival survivors and think they're just making it up. These are obviously deeply traumatised people trying to come to terms with unspeakable horror. As this girl says at 06:52, what's worse than her own experience is knowing how much worse it must be for the beautiful girls taken to Gaza for a fate worse than death.

I used to think "fate worse than death" was sort of a jokey euphemism, a bit like "lie back and think of England." But I can't begin to imagine what it must have been like to fall into the hands of the raiders on 7 Oct.

s

This.

Having read that link I see SM posts in significant numbers saying that no rape kits to take evidence if rapes so people assume it didn't happen, a woman recounting from her hiding place of another woman gang raped and then killed was dismissed online as a 'fantasist '. Its almost as if people want to dismiss the claims because they are Jewish or Israeli a bit like people deny the holocaust. Its bizarre that people so easily discount a survivor stating she saw rape happen. So whilst identifying bodies in the immediate aftermath, some 1400 ish of them because rape kits didn't get evidence of sperm it doesn't count .

It’s very sad that some posters appear more worried about infringing the human rights of the perpetrators than those of the victims.

I had noticed that. There isn't the same critisism either for all the footage of blown up babies and children, and I highly doubt all will have been taken by their parents and posted with their permission.

It’s very sad that some posters appear more worried about infringing the human rights of the perpetrators than those of the victims.

Interesting watch, the leaders of hamas left them to do it whilst safe in Qatar.

@VeronicaM27

Read one woman's account of what she saw.
I have seen videos of women bleeding from their backsides/fronts being dragged around and passed around. If you search its out there. You constant request for proof is sick and shows you don't believe because Israel lies blah blah.
Stop being goading or unhinged asking if it exists - it exists. There are video records of a man raping a woman and whilst still inside her shooting her in thd head. There are videos of women taking back to Palestine and local residents having a go in a queue. Go look since you don't believe.
Why are women being so obtuse unhinged and denying this happened!

Please ask MNHQ to remove this video - can't imagine it's within their T&C to be infringing anyones human rights

For general purposes:

Whatever anyone says while at the direct mercy of any power that cold reasonably be considered "probably not primarily interested in what they would like": treat as "potential coercion" and hence "extremely doutful".

Furthermore: the publishing of both hostage videos and of the interrogation of Palestinians ...

... these are, what "human rights violations" look like in practice!

In this sense: can we please not post any of them?

These people are all highly likely to be speaking under duress and/or having endured substantial abuse!

I agree but im not defending anyone just calling out wrongs and there's a lot of wrongs on both sides.

The hostage vids are useful to a degree as proof of life but what is said in them is irrelevant