Justifying the rape of women

@Stomacharmeleon

I really don't get it at all.

Women were raped in Haiti by aid workers, no videos to watch, it wasn't questioned, quite rightly.

Women raped by the Taliban in Afghanistan, not on film for all to see and not questioned, quite rightly.

Victims of rape by Hamas and recounting by Jewish women of seeing rape by Hamas whilst hiding, the bodies with broken pelvises from violent rapes, and the response was 'did it really happen, wheres the proof, I don't believe anything Israelis say!'

@XRAYTHIS @Noelectricheating there are LOTS of posters like that on here....

This.

I listen to the woman who states she was raped or saw others raped. I don't demand a video recording to prove it. Frankly, those type of individuals disgust me.

This

Totally agreed. There are threads where individuals share they have seen x and y and z. That sort of person seems to actively search out horror as 'research' to find the truth.

Then a woman says she watched another be raped and killed whilst she hide terrified for her life and that she saw dead babies, children beheaded, burnt and obviously raped women by their injuries some ghoul seeker asks for a link or says how do you know it happened. Frankly if a woman says she was raped or saw other women raped or bodies where there are signs of rape etc, I don't need to see that I trust them. Some ghouls doubt and sneer. They are heartless and vile. Shani Louk and the way she was taken and passed around and treated then killed was enough to show what the terrorists ate capable of.

It's easy to fall into that trap.

It’s entirely on them.

It’s very hard to deal with and the disbelief is horrifying as is their need to see it.

Try not to feel bad

I’ve said it many times, I find the endless faux naïve requests for first hand accounts prurient and self serving.

Yes, I feel stupid for buying into them and sharing details that the victims do not deserve to have shared.

It’s a relentless pursuit of more and more ways to appropriate someone’s suffering.

It provides a reason to make someone else’s suffering all about oneself, to use it to validate one’s beliefs. To find a tribe and to be part of something while denying the “other side” they’re suffering.

I’ve said it many times, I find the endless faux naïve requests for first hand accounts prurient and self serving.

Plus, honestly, none of us has any influence over what's happening. We are all just shouting into a bucket, and things will unfold as they will. These nutters are not "controlling the narrative," they're just embarrassing.

Thank goodness at least some people tap into the part of their brain that says " should I?" before uploading images and videos of the dead and dying.
One would imagine that the amount of people not desensitised to violence is in the majority.
And like I asked on another thread...What type of person searches out the.videos for the purposes of sensationalism?
I'd be angry if the patient side of me didn't worry about their mental health. It can't be healthy .
It's bad enough when one encounters ghoulish and depressing interviews ,testimony and images on a mainstream internet stroll, much less going into crevices and corners to find it.

True... My only consolation is that anyone reading these threads can spot the nutter a mile off. Also, although historical records might not bother with MN threads, you never know. Bigotry and hatred are always painfully obvious in retrospect.

Just to add, the reply I got said essentially that if I feel there is misinformation then I can post to that effect, but the thing is I really don't want to add more oxygen or get into some stupid back-and-forth, particularly on such hideous topics where you end up having to share lots of additional, sensitive detail and links to 'prove' something they already know.

I take your point but I'm talking about really the basic facts of the worst atrocity against Jewish people since the Holocaust. If posts about "fake baby stories!!" don't merit a deletion then maybe they should just ban all posts about Israel/Palestine, because clearly they don't have the wherewithal to spot obvious trolling.

I think MN are in a difficult position because they are trying to allow each "side" to express its position and you can't really exercise quality control in that.

Or at least, you could, but you'd have to acquaint yourself with more detail than is normally required to monitor posts.

I think the thing is, to balance things out we would have to start threads about how evil Hamas are, and post "important updates!!!" every 5 seconds with pictures from trash sites like X and TikTok, and hastily hashed-up graphics from Facebook etc, illustrating crazy stuff Hamas leaders have said, and their cruelty and violence.

Not only would this be a full-time job, but it's clearly just a brainless thing to do, which is why we don't bother.

Also, as PPs have said, we try to respect the dead. Unlike those who parade baby corpses at every opportunity.

Yeah, its unreal to watch....

I don't understand why mumsnet allows it to continue tbh.

At this point, this section should just be called I Hate Israel.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1725124238724448497

For anyone questioning the rapes and the brutalisation of women, here you go. Happy now? Or do you still believe that shit that they were rushing her to hospital in Gaza?
Anyone else I'd suggest not clicking and upsetting yourself.

It was seeing the footage and images from this particular atrocity that made me realise on a visceral level what Hamas are, and leaving even all else aside, they are the enemy of women.

I did also read that the IDF say they have killed one of the perpetrators and that's one bit of violence I frankly would enjoy seeing.

@Iwantcakeeveryday
I agree completely, especially about the moderation. Posters are free to make whatever claims they want on here, it's become an absolute frenzy of hate and misinformation. I can't quite believe the wide-eyed faux naivety of posters who claim there's no proof of what happened on October 7th. It was a few weeks ago, if you're posting on this board (and you haven't been living under a rock) there is zero excuse for minimising and denying what we all remember Hamas proudly filming and taking full credit for. I don't understand why mumsnet allows it to continue tbh.

I feel very... afraid actually, at the response to October 7th and the demand for evidence of rapes before people will believe the people who witnessed them. I've seen interviews with survivors, seriously traumatised people who feel clearly still afraid and traumatised and don't really want to go into the level of detail some of the people here are demanding before they'll believe it. Its the same when people want to discuss the Pro Palestine marches around the world and the blatant anti semitism occurring and the pro Hamas messages, people dismiss it, its just a tieeny tiny amount etc when that is not the case at all. My husband and I watched a compilation of footage from marches across the world, and we sat in stone cold silence. I felt sick watching it. There was so much at the London ones, not a tiny fringe at all, but a lot of people shouting horrible things, saying Hamas are freedom fighters, Hitler had the right idea, how they felt so happy watching videos of disgusting things being done to Israelis, jews as they actually said... I still fell quite shaken by it actually and I am dismayed at the moderating of the discussions here. All fuelling this hideous hatred of jewish people. I would feel so afraid if I was jewish. It frightens me.

This thread is about not believing rape claims of women or minimising them, etc. A site mainly for women not believing women. I don't need to see a video of the rape if a woman to believe her.

The denial about what happened on 7th October is absolutely mind boggling and I don't just mean denial of rape. I've never seen anything like it and I'm 67. I seriously wonder just what people would classify as independent and verifiable, do they actually want to see videos of the events? Frankly I've seen quite a bit of the stuff that was available on Twitter and that's more than enough for me. Based on the horror of that, I don't doubt for one moment that what people are saying is generally true.

I'm also sure there will be an inquiry with reports from pathologists, first responders etc.

This news reporter realised, in the middle of an interview with parents, that he had seen footage of their son with his left forearm blown off, being taken by truck to Gaza.

I actually saw that video yesterday. It was awful.

No I haven't seen the videos of dead children in Gaza.
I know children are dying I don't need to search for videos. It's tragic.

This thread is about not believing rape claims of women or minimising them, etc. A site mainly for women not believing women. I don't need to see a video of the rape if a woman to believe her.

This thread was stated about sexual violence and rape. It's not often that rape has a witness. In other contexts on mumsnet most women come from a default position of believing and supporting women; 'I believe her'. I do wonder if we are extending that same approach to Israeli women who were brutalised and raped. I don't think we are.

And yes, I think mumsnet users in general have been far too quick to try to excuse and explain the horrendous terrorist atrocities visited on Israel. Victim blaming at its worst and at best unhelpful at worst antisemitic. We should be able to condemn these atrocities unequivocally and totally. There is no excuse for them.