Justifying the rape of women

The report by the UN was fair but I felt that restraint and stripping was evidence of degrading treatment and likely of a sexual nature.

I do not believe that the Jewish News Syndicate is objective because of how it is funded.

And I think Apple News is an agregate news ap so I think that it feeds you what you want to read unless you’re careful with your settings

You say to me the report was very fair, in your opinion, and to previous poster that it was not an objective source.

@XRAYTHIS
The report was very restrained in its description of some elements of the Zaka scandal and despite the Israeli governments exploitation of some of Zaka’s fraudulent accounts of the aftermath of the 7/10 they still took what was presented by Israel at face value. I think they were very fair and I have read the entire report.

This is not an objective source. It is funded by the Adelson group which is an organisation dedicated to strengthening the State of Israel. Senator Adeldon has been criticised for secretly buying up and grant aiding newspapers to influence public opinion strategicallly( source Forward Jewish independent non profit). One of his journals has been called Bibiton because of is laudatory coverage of Mr Netanyahu

Well I can separate the women from the Israeli government.

Since this is a thread about rape I assumed that's what is bring discussed. There are hundreds of threads on any number of other things.

The article was interesting. People do appear to have bias against the Israeli victims as could be seen immediately following and numerous comments along the lines of where's the proof /don't believe anything Israelis say etc etc....it clear to see. They forgot to use rape tests kits on dead women, so how do you know that missing underwear means rape blah blah etc etc. The witness statements denied too. On and on.

You don't see it though. The article demonstrated it with examples, did you read it?

This is so political, it’s in my opinion more about benefitting Israeli propaganda than the victims.

#believeallwomen

#dontbelieveIsraelipropoganda

Nope, you made that connection.

Rape is evil as i said, condemned where ever it is done, to who & with zero justification, there is none.

I made my further statements because that is what Israel should and is rightly being criticised for, i ve no time for idiots who try to minimise or justify Hamas and their atrocities.... though it does seem ok for you and others to bring in left vs right... its not.

I ve no time for what Hamas did on 7/10, it needs to be atoned for but the ordinary Gazan is not Hamas.

Why is it not OK to just condemn rape without the 'but its not alright for Israel to .....'.

The article concentrates on why people deny rape when it's against some women and turn themselves into knots trying to minimise, deny, pick holes, say its Israel so must be lying, made up etc. Then change the subject to but .....

Indeed.

Seen lots of this on MN. Its quite sickening.

oh give over with that BS!

Rape is wrong, its evil, its not a left vs right issue and neither is the state of Israel, which has, in international law, an absolute right to exist.

What it hasn't the right though is to go into the West Bank and kick out the Palestinians, in many cases, killing them without sanction.

Nor the right to break international law & wilfully kill Palestinians in Gaza, the body bags with dead babies in them having died of starvation or lack of oxygen i saw on Sky today was shocking, the IDF can stop that from happening, without it curtailing their hunt for Hamas terrorists.

www.jns.org/why-the-left-must-lie-about-hamas-and-rape/

@stomachamelon

It’s horrible that the men on October 7th decided it would be a good idea to do this to women, and it’s horrible how politicised the issue has become.

Feeling very angry today about how much more governments and men in power (apparently) care about violence against women when it’s committed by an out group. But when it happens within their own societies they don’t do enough. Not a specific criticism of Israel, can’t think of a country where it wouldn’t be applicable.

Sharing an interesting article which talks about the link between misogyny and terrorism. Perhaps all countries should as part of their terrorism strategy invest more in holding the men in their own communities accountable for their misogyny and violence towards women.

I’m sure I will have inadvertently said something here that you will deem incorrect, but hope we can at least agree that more needs to be done to prevent and hold accountable those who rape and sexually abuse women, and be united as women against this.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/05/many-terrorists-abuse-women-research-extremist-attackers-violent-misogyny

There are other reasons why victims may not be willing to cooperate fully. See the paragraph below from the UN report published earlier in the thread.

1. While the mission team met with a number of released hostages, it noted their well-founded fears about the risk of revealing their stories, which may result in their identification and further harm to them as well as to those still in captivity. The mission team further noted the fact that the identities of some of them have been publicly disclosed in both national and international media, often with their names and photos, which has contributed to some choosing to remain silent.
2. Moreover, trust in national governmental institutions or intemational organizations, such as the United Nations, are at an all-time low amongst many survivors and/or witnesses of the 7 October attacks, making them reluctant to come forward, in addition to the high media scrutiny of those who do opt to share their accounts publicly

Several articles to follow...

Exactly. Why isn’t Israel willing to let UN fully investigate. Wouldn’t it be on the benefit of the victims ? Or is Israel worried about something against them being found ?

I think that while many people believe accounts from those who were there and that sexual violence and rape happened, they are unwilling to trust the official narrative from Israel, because of a lack of transparency, the way evidence was collected, and because the issue has been weaponised to justify a disproportionate offensive. All of this makes a horrendous situation even worse.

From the tweet (there is a video):
https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1765338537954611465
Israel is frustrated with the UN report on Oct 7 sexual violence b/c it doesn't accuse Hamas or any other armed groups of these alleged acts

Pramila Patten says Israel should give access to an investigation to look into this

Israel refuses to cooperate with the UN investigation

Okay, literally, how about "the extent to which sexual violence occurred on 7 Oct 2023 [or before that, or after, in how Israel treats Palestinians"] is, literally, ...

A) yes, something that needs to be investigated
B) and prosecuted - yes, that would include Israeli as well as Palestinian perpetrators!
C) completely immaterial to the question whether or not the current horror in Gaza is justified [for the record: it really fucking isn't!]

Even if 1000 Israeli women had been systematically raped on 7 Oct [they haven't been - nobody, not even the state of Israel, claims that!] - that still would not justify the killing, maiming, starving and thirsting out, kidnapping and arresting of tens of thousands of Palestinian women and girls!

Personally, I am willing to believe every single victim, and precisely zero government spokespeople, on sight! Sexual violence is "normal" in war! I have personally experienced being sexually taunted and threatened by Israeli soldiers [and: I am white British; they just wanted to humiliate my Palestinian husband and had no personal "beef" with me]. Yes, those soldiers needed to be disciplined, prosecuted and jailed [they weren't, of course], but, no, their behaviour was not "unusual". It was just "how men with guns treat women in war zones" - why would I assume Palestinians are any better behaved? I don't!

Still: no justification for mass murder!

@stomachamelon
No intention to minimise the experience of anyone who was subjected to SVC.

What I meant was that given the scale of the attacks, there is little in the way forensic or eye witness records in proportion to the amount of restraint and stripping noted. I was surprised that the report didn’t just take this as actual sexual violence in itself. I think that the pattern was too much of a coincidence and there was intent and that an order to degrade the victims was given, although they could not find evidence.

Looking at paragraphs 13, 58 and 60 there seem to have credible witness accounts for 4 rapes including one of a dead person.

Has anyone else actually read the full report?

Your heart goes out to those affected:(

The reddit account linked to it is also rather interesting.

What does the channel matter? It's a video of the press conference.

That's an interesting little youtube channel. Very newly created, very specific sphere of interest.

UN ‘evidence’ of Hamas rape questioned by journalist - “How is this different from the NYT Story?”

UN’s Pramila Patten questioned by journalist on Hamas rape report claims “How is this any different from the New York Times Story?”. From UNTV Press Briefing 4 March 2024.
“The reason I’m asking this is because there are real consequences to this report. I mean I know you keep saying the Commission of Inquiry need to go and do their investigation, which I believe they’re doing, but the Israeli ambassador to the UN has said publicly ‘We’re not going to cooperate with that’ so that recommendation is already DOA I guess you could say.
Are you at all concerned that this report: Sexual violence against women, is being weaponised as a way to continue violence in Gaza?”
——
Pramila Patten, UN Special Envoy on Sexual Violence in Conflict, responds to questions from the press on her the recent visit to Israel and the occupied West Bank, and subsequent report. The report from her Office, arose from the official week-long visit to Israel at the invitation of the Israeli government, which included a 1-day visit to the occupied West Bank, between 29 January and 14 February.
In the Press Briefing she stressed that the mission and report were not “investigative” in nature, and that the purpose was to gather and verify “information” not “evidence” which she made pains to clarify were completely different.
Patten stated that she did not meet with any survivors of sexual violence of the 7th of October attacks or it’s aftermath. She stated that she received information from Israeli representatives that “a handful of survivors were receiving very specialized trauma treatment and where too traumatized to speak.”
The team conducted 33 meetings with Israeli representatives, examining more than 5,000 photographic images and 50 hours of video footage, and had 34 confidential interviews including with survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders and others including discredited Yosi Landow of Zaka at Kibbutz Be'eri.
The report states that “the information gathered by the mission team was in a large part sourced from Israeli national institutions. This is due to the absence of United Nations entities operating in Israel, as well as the lack of cooperation by the state of Israel with relevant United Nations bodies with an investigative mandate.”
Based on this information, the UN mission team found that there are ‘reasonable grounds to believe' that conflict-related sexual violence occurred. The mission also determined that at least two allegations of rape were unfounded.
The team also visited the occupied West Bank, where Patten met 4 recently released Palestinian detainees who provided first hand accounts of sexual violence perpetrated by Israeli authorities in threats of rape, and heard concerns raised over “cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of Palestinians, men and women, in detention,” including “sexual violence in the form of invasive body searches, threats of rape, and prolonged forced nudity.”
The report made recommendations included calling for a full fledged investigation by competent UN bodies into allegations of sexual violence on October 7th, and a humanitarian ceasefire.

Links - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BPKo0VhGxWQ