Justifying the rape of women

The UN live streamed a two hour segment yesterday in honour of international women's day without mentioning the 19 women hostages.

www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/ES2YhjZTFp

@Silence1 of course you only came on the share your 'bafflement'

This is a very interesting article about the politicisation of rape as a war crime.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2024/01/16/bombing-gaza-isnt-fighting-sexual-violence/

However, we do not honor the voices of those who may have experienced sexual violence by ventriloquizing them or claiming to speak on their behalf....Historically, women have not only been silenced or disbelieved about sexual violence. They have also been spoken for and instrumentalized, particularly in conflict situations.

This sums up how I feel about the way the rapes are being used in discourse about the war.

Whatever.

That is absolutely not what I have done.
I can only assume you are deliberately misrepresenting what I say because I criticized the mis-information that was spread by the first responders Zaka.

I reported the last poster who accused me of denying rape. I don't want to do it again as the thread should not be deleted

You would think that the actions/untruths of an organisation that would lead to people being able to cast doubt on women's testimonies of what happened on 7th October would annoy people.
That is what I naively thought but no this is the Israel authorities we are talking about therefore I am the one to be attacked and told to shut up. And I am the one trying to discredit the women? That is twisted logic.
I believe these women and I am annoyed that someone in a trusted position ie first responder has handed on a plate, to those who want to use it that way, reasons for them to be doubted which happens to women all the time.
I am at an absolute loss why the rest of you don't feel that.
You don't, I do.

I really hope so. It’s the only way we can move forward.

@Scirocco thank you for that statement.

Yes - it’s disgusting when people do that. This was a thread about the sexual barbarity on October 7 - impossible to understand how anyone can’t just say-“ that’s horrific. “

My love is for the people who are prepared to identify with and support the suffering of those on “ the other side” .
I hope all pro Israelis on this thread agree that the terrible suffering of innocent Palestinians is not the correct response to the terrible suffering of innocent Israelis.

You came on this thread to discredit rape victims and deny what was done to them. Why? What is your motivation?

Truth will prevail

@stomachamelon it's a hard watch, but like you say, an important one. People need to watch and listen, and think, and believe women.

What happened on October 7th must not be downplayed. It was... I struggle to find the words to say how horrific it was to read and see and hear what happened.

The perpetrators must be brought to justice.

I know this is probably of no significance to the survivors and the bereaved, but what those men have done is entirely forbidden by Islam and justice under the very sharia law they claim to value so highly could actually involve death sentences. There are clear teachings in Islam that people who have done these things will be severely punished after they die, as well. Rape, torture, mutilation... all condemned.

In Islam, it is said that we as ordinary people do not have the right to say that someone is not a Muslim when that person says that they are, because we cannot know what is in another person's heart. But I struggle with that. I struggle to see how those people can hold any semblance of the same faith as me and my family and friends, when their hearts also contained such evil.

I'm struggling to post much today, it's a hard day, but please don't take that to mean I don't care. My heart breaks for the innocent victims of October 7th, just as much as for the innocent people of Palestine.

Silence is despicable....

www.instagram.com/reel/C4QX3rRrymw/?igsh=MXhpMWc2cWFtNHVvZw==

Silence is despicable....

There is descriptions of a very sensitive nature in this video and first hand accounts. May be triggering.

I think it's important though.

I've read the whole report too and agree with your posts.

I read yesterday from Israeli sources that a full investigation has started into how Oct 7th happened.

https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/press-release/israel-west-bank-mission/

I don't know if this particular link has been shared. If it has, I apologise for the duplication.

I think part of the challenge with the report is that its remit wasn't to carry out a full investigation but to gather information to guide on what a full investigation would need to look like. To compare it with UK criminal justice processes, it seems more akin to an initial summary of evidence rather than the final submission to a court.

However, because of the high stakes, breakdowns of trust, and general bias in most societies against women in situations where women report having experienced sexual assault or harm, demands and expectations are being placed on the report that it cannot meet, as it is a preliminary stage in the investigation.

To bring perpetrators to justice, there will need to be a full investigation. At that point, there may well be a critique of some of the evidence-gathering, forensic analysis and reliability of accounts, as is normal in investigations. Robust examination of evidence is an important part of the justice process. But it needs to be tempered by recognition of the bias against women reporting sexual violence (evidence in these cases is often held to a higher standard than in other cases where non sexual violence is reported, especially against men rather than women).

I haven’t seen any posts on this thread that use Oct 7th as “justification for the disproportionate response “
. I have seen posts that nitpick about the degree and extent of the horrors of October 7th.

I agree with your last paragraph.

Some pro-Israeli posters come across as if they are using the issue to further the narrative that everyone who disagrees with the way Israel has handled this doesn’t believe women, is antisemitic, and as though what happened on Oct 7th, is justification for the disproportionate response.
That this issue has been politicised by people (especially men), who wouldn’t normally give a rat arse about sexual violence against women makes me feel sick.
It’s ridiculous to politicise the issue and then try to claim the moral high ground. Once again people’s lives are tools to further the narratives that help powerful men.
Also, if anyone generally believe there was no sexual violence on 7th October or that witnesses who were actual victims made stuff up then they need to seriously check themselves.

Women and girls were raped, tortured, taken hostage and killed. It’s horrific. We don’t need to quibble about the details. We know enough to know it happened. You’re criticising Israeli cooperation with the UN but as you’re a pro Palestinian poster your quibbles come across as if you’re using the rape of Israeli women as a reason to blame the Israel government.

( Palestinians are starving- that’s horrific too. I wouldn’t quibble about the exact percentage that are starving. We know enough to know innocent Palestinians are suffering)

Have you even bothered reading the document produced by UN?

ps. No need to love. We are not friends

@EasterIssland your opinion will be passed on love. Ta.

@Limesodaagain completely agreed. There are some fantastic and considerate posters on here.

How am I minimising the horror of 7-10 when I’m talking about what the UNs report says. I think the report would be more fair if Israel would help more and some mistakes hadn’t been done by zaka

I have a lot more respect for those pro Palestinian posters who bring our attention to the terrible situation in Gaza but don’t try to minimise the horror of October 7

It's always someone else's fault....

Exactly it was fair with the info Israel had provided. Even the un can’t proof many things and criticised that Israel got in the way and it’s not willing to fully cooperate