Please excuse my ignorance on this Israel question

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@40ouncesofgin

Truthfully, if you want to be a critical thinker, read those books- because they perspectives that can add richness to your understanding. This is something that helps me decipher who is or is not trustworthy

I myself, know that Gabor Mate is well regarded, he is respected, and is well researched by many psychologists. He is also a survivor of the Holocaust; many of his family perished during it, which means he has some valid opinions and lived experiences. So ask yourself, why would a doctor, specialist in trauma studies, and a survivor of the holocaust, who after having visited Israel on several occasions, concludes that the treatment of Palestinians is unfair, that it brought him to tears. Does he sound like a bigot? Does it sound like quack?
No.

But then look at people like Katie Hopkins, Suella Braverman, Ben Shapiro, Bill Mahr, and Jordan Petersen. They all think that Israel is Disneyland for the Palestinians, that any problem is a made up problem that Palestinians keep banging on about, that that Palestinians loving living in slums and refuse peace. If your views align with theirs on other topics; think Brexit, immigration, economic policy, LGBTQ, anything really then use them as baseline. But if you disagree with most of their views about most things, then ask yourself this question: why are they supporting something unequivocally?

That was the stated intent, but they have since joined in by striking Syria.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67236438

The US does not have friends, it has 'interests'
Israel is funded because of the heavy Christian Zionism lobby- who by the way are anti semitic and do not care about Jews at all. Baffles me that some don't see this. Marjorie Taylor Greene,known for being an anti semitic far right nut job, is supporting Israel (govt). Trust me, sadly they don't care about Jewish safety. They are islamaphobic simple as. They do not care who is there in the geography so long as the Arabs don't get too much power. The region is of major interest for the US so they treat Israel as an outpost. A military outpost that is an extension of them. Location location location

The Far Right in Europe have had a long shameful history with antisemitism and yet they are the biggest supporters of Zionism. Make that make sense?

Of course they'll sell you the dream that they love the Jewish people, which is BS. They don't care. Or that they're liberating somebody from something; which is also bull.

You go back far enough when we had 2 major chess players (superpowers) in the political landscape, you'll read that the Soviets had a long standing relationship with the Middle East. The Americans were terrified that communism was going to spread to the ME as a result. And since the Arabs were lapping up the idea of an Arab union, and that they saw Islam had many ' socialist' aspects that they were intrigued by the soviets, this freaked the Americans out.

So, by destroying any chance of Arabs uniting; through economic destabilisation, overthrowing republics in the region, and placing 'pro US interest' puppets instead, and along with other Western powers, facilitating the rise of certain royal families (The Saud family/ Hashemite family) the Arabs turned against each other and if they didn't they were desperate enough to claim funds from the West.

The Americans also funded regimes in Africa, don't forget, and gave plenty of Aid to countries branded as ' helping levelling up and moral duty' but it was a veil to ensure that the biggest threat to them, communism, does not spread. Further, you keep populations desperate enough, then breadcrumb them occasionally, they'll maintain the status quo.

Israel is the The Queen in a game of Chess that the US is still playing.

Educate me....I mean that sincerely. As a British person with no links to Israel or Palestine....what do you mean about that list of names. I watched a video by Gabor Mate....is he also "loathed by every Jewish person?"

What a lovely bunch they are.

At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world’s sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two. [...] But Pappe is more brazen. He, too, often omits and ignores significant evidence, and he, too, alleges that a source tells us the opposite of what it in fact says, but he will also simply and straightforwardly falsify evidence.

I don't know if you're naive or if you actually know what you're doing, but that list of names really is a dead giveaway.

Thank you for your condolences on the death of my friend. Your empathy really shines through.

/s

Famous Anti Zionists off the top of my head...Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Ilan Pappe, Max Blumenthal, Gabor Maté…

I think he's entitled to his opinion, and I doubt it's so singular.

Michael Rosen hounded a dear friend of mine to death (a Jewish man and wonderful campaigner against antisemitism).

Michael Rosen is loathed by every Jewish person I know for the massive harm he has caused to us as individuals and as a community, but he is very useful to antisemites who like him to roll him out on every possible occasion.

https://www.thejc.com/news/news/tracy-ann-oberman-john-ware-and-emma-pick-nominated-for-inaugural-pete-newbon-award-6NKQiWAfHu3xEr8hHsUFci

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Newbon

I don’t think thats the reason, the USA has basically sent them to warn off Hezbollah and Iran from better involved. I imagine the UK is doing so for similar reasons to stop a region wide escalation.

Some Jewish people are against the genocide in Palestine, and the evil in refusing to allow aid in. And not all Jewish people are Zionist. Michael Rosen, for instance, who is Jewish, asked Margaret Hodge a couple of years ago to clarify part of the debate:

"Given that Margaret Hodge has adopted the 'antizionism = antisemitism' trope, perhaps she could clarify what views Palestinians are/are not allowed to have about Israel-Palestine and which of these people are/are not allowed to agree with."

I had the same conversation with a Canadian friend in the late 90s who was shocked at the litter in London… Canadians being far more responsible about litter anyway… and she was surprised there were no litter bins on tube platforms. I told her they had been removed due to the IRA bomb campaign in London. I didn’t go directly to the NorAid connection but it was a jolt to her that life had been affected on such a level.

After 9/11 America banned donations to terrorist organisations… and the cry of ‘what about NorAid?’ meant that finally that was stopped.

But that was different from the U.S state funding of Israel. NorAid was a membership organisation.

That should say non-Jewish Israelies sorry.

Because Jewish people living outside Israel who are not Israeli citizens don't get to vote in elections in Israel so cannot be held in any way responsible for the actions of the Israeli government/Netanyahu

If that's what the poster meant that's what they would have said. Even so, why is it only Jews responsible and not non-Israeli Jews?

Yes I agree, it's exactly how Muslims were treated after 9/11.

Not sure what you mean by the "antisemitism card" but I shudder whenever I hear that phrase - is that the same as "playing the racism card", which is just as offensive - do you see?

And to be quite honest that poster has been baiting British Jews for 3 weeks now so I'm not too interested in what she may or may not mean. I can see exactly what she is.

@ScarboroughHair thank you for your reply, I didn't know why either and was scared to ask

Also, yes: expecting Jews outside of Israel to answer for whatever Israel does IS antisemitic. Should Muslims be made to answer for IS? No, that's Islamophobic, but two wrongs don't make a right.

In the USA, while Jews are broadly pro-Israel, many are critical of the Israeli government. The whole equation is not at all simple.

Also, quite a lot of the aid requires Israel to spend it on US-made products, so it's also a boon to US industry.

Oh my this thread has already gone antisemitic.

The most influential pro-Israel people in the USA aren't Jewish, they are evangelical Christians, who massively outnumber Jews by any method of counting.

@Fortheloveofwatermelon

Us Muslims were made to denounce

So you are saying Muslims had to be ‘made’ to denounce 9/11?

Who’d have thought it was touted as the religion of peace.

Clearly you are good at twisting words and taking words out of context. I hope you are enjoying this which clearly shows.

Oh dear.

"The antisemitism card"

😜

Clearly the poster meant Israelis living in Israel