Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Please recommend a book on the history of the conflict.

41 replies

HvalaALot · 23/10/2023 21:13

One that looks at both sides of the conflict.

I need to understand the complexities of it all!

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Ohlalalalala · 25/10/2023 12:53

*would educate not could.

Ohlalalalala · 25/10/2023 12:51

HeidiInTheBigCity · 25/10/2023 11:09

Second "Orientalism" by Edward Said - it's really heavy reading and definitely not only about the conflict - but it's also a must-read for anyone seeking to better understand especially so-called "Western" attitudes towards Middle Easterners in particular!

In terms of coming to a hopefully at least somewhat holistic picture on the conflict itself, I would actually recommend reading books from various authors with conflicting points of view! Parroting one person's opinion on an incredibly complex situation hardly makes you informed.

As for the person who called Noam Chomsky an anti-semite: that is not only ridiculous and insulting, it's also a demonstration of utter cluelessness! Chomsky is, broadly speaking, an anarcho-syndicalist or libertarian socialist, i.e. a type of leftwing anarchist and a prominent supporter of a one state solution on I/P. Anarchists tend not to be supportive of the concept of ethnostates in principle - that is not even remotely anti-semitic!

Actually, while we're on Chomsky: "Manufacturing Consent" is another great, albeit not updated for the digital age, work that explains quite a few of the dynamics of the relentless propaganda onslaught we are seeing!

I totally agree with what you said on everything. Manufacturing Consent is a must read indeed! The Propaganda Model is especially relevant.

Something else that has been used a lot in the recent events is the Atrocity Propaganda.

I just wish people could educate themselves so that they could see how the mass media has been/ is playing mind games and spreading misinformation.

This quote sums up quite well what's happening:

If You Don’t Read the Newspaper You Are Uninformed, If You Do Read the Newspaper You Are Misinformed

HeidiInTheBigCity · 25/10/2023 11:09

Second "Orientalism" by Edward Said - it's really heavy reading and definitely not only about the conflict - but it's also a must-read for anyone seeking to better understand especially so-called "Western" attitudes towards Middle Easterners in particular!

In terms of coming to a hopefully at least somewhat holistic picture on the conflict itself, I would actually recommend reading books from various authors with conflicting points of view! Parroting one person's opinion on an incredibly complex situation hardly makes you informed.

As for the person who called Noam Chomsky an anti-semite: that is not only ridiculous and insulting, it's also a demonstration of utter cluelessness! Chomsky is, broadly speaking, an anarcho-syndicalist or libertarian socialist, i.e. a type of leftwing anarchist and a prominent supporter of a one state solution on I/P. Anarchists tend not to be supportive of the concept of ethnostates in principle - that is not even remotely anti-semitic!

Actually, while we're on Chomsky: "Manufacturing Consent" is another great, albeit not updated for the digital age, work that explains quite a few of the dynamics of the relentless propaganda onslaught we are seeing!

SOBplus · 25/10/2023 10:46

GrumpyPanda · 25/10/2023 09:23

Not Yasmine whose X account it is, but the clip of Mosab is the author and the film The Green Prince was based on his book.

CharismaticMegafauna · 25/10/2023 09:24

I Shall Not Hate: A Gaza Doctor's Journey on the Road to Peace and Human Dignity
Book by Izzeldin Abuelaish

GrumpyPanda · 25/10/2023 09:23

SOBplus · 24/10/2023 16:39

Son of Hamas, an insider's perspective.

I take it this is the same person?

https://twitter.com/YasMohammedxx/status/1715257331724763195

https://twitter.com/YasMohammedxx/status/1715257331724763195

HaitchOar · 25/10/2023 09:09

Not a book, but I think some of the older Adam Curtis documentaries cover the origins in a really interesting way. I rewatched Hypernormalisation the other day; it isn’t all about Israel and Palestine, but it does cover some of the origins and the 70s/ 80s.

CharismaticMegafauna · 25/10/2023 09:07

Tom Segev has written a range of books looking at different periods (e.g. British Mandate, 1949, 1968).

'Israel' by Martin Gilbert.

'The Arabs' by Eugene Rogan has a chapter on Palestine.

'The Lemon Tree' by Sandy Tolan and 'My Promised Land' by Ari Shavit.

'The Other Side of Israel' by Susan Nathan is about a Jewish woman who moves to an Arab village.

Recent podcasts on BBC Sounds: 'The Mandates' with Tom Bateman and 'Understand' with Katya Adler.

Sugaristheenemy · 25/10/2023 08:50

They are against Israel not Jews. It's laughable how some people want to stifle any criticism of Israel by branding anyone who does as antisemitic, even Jews themselves!

Yes, I think the author of the first book I suggested (Ahron Bergman) was accused of being a “self-hating Jew” or something like that for daring to write a book that was critical of Israel’s actions.

Shouldimove · 25/10/2023 08:42

I think Jeremy Bowen also has a podcast if you prefer to comsume that way.

Shouldimove · 25/10/2023 08:41

I'm not sure if he's already been recommended but Ilan Pappé is an academic at the University of Exeter. He's written several books with sources cited throughout but still very accessible. Take a look, I'm currently reading one on the experiences on Palestinians living in Israel. You'll hear many people on mumsnet argue that Arabs in Israel have equal rights to Jewish Israeli citizens. This is the book to read on that subject.

CaveMum · 25/10/2023 08:24

If you have the time it’s also well worth listening to/watching the (separate) interviews they did with Yuval Noah Harari (Israeli writer) and Husam Zomlot (Palestinian ambassador to the UK). Having a longer interview rather than 5 minutes on the news channels means they can get into more depth and they do a good job of trying to see things from both sides whilst also asking challenging questions.

Hamas and Gaza | A Liberal Israeli's View - Yuval Noah Harari

Does Hamas actually want Israel to invade Gaza? Is there a danger that this tragic situation will strengthen the hand of the ultra-nationalist Israeli right?...

https://youtu.be/9qaxYQqmzIg?si=dhUQZ5zl92R04_Si

CaveMum · 25/10/2023 08:19

Listened to the latest The Rest is Politics podcast this morning on my run. Rory Stewart recommended a few books on the conflict to listeners (he’s pretty much a Middle East expert). I can’t remember the titles but one was written by the King of Jordan (Jordan has a very high % of population of Palestinian descent) and another by a New York Times journalist. If you listen to the podcast you will be able to get the full details. It was about 5 or 10 minutes into the podcast, they started out talking about the recent by-elections then moved on to the conflict.

In the meantime, Rory Stewart did an excellent explainer on the situation shortly after the attack on 7 October which is worth watching on YouTube

Rory Stewart Attempts to Explain the History of Israel-Palestine in 10 Minutes

How did Hamas launch one of the largest invasions on Israeli territory in recent history? What happens now? Will this conflict have geo-political ramificatio...

https://youtu.be/xAs5EOBUDcs?si=rXElvSF0qodWz_Tn

etmoietmoietmoi · 24/10/2023 20:04

Ohlalalalala · 24/10/2023 18:03

Now even Jews are called antisemites???? Anti-themselves???? Please! Anti Zionists yes; anti-semites, definitely not. Both Chomsky and Pappe are great academics whose work is evidence-based research centered around facts.

You should rethink your definitions.

Most Jews agree that other Jews can be antisemitic.

Martin83 · 24/10/2023 20:03

Bible

user1494050295 · 24/10/2023 19:53

And thanks god you don’t live in the USA where the universities are getting a bashing

user1494050295 · 24/10/2023 19:52

Anything by Fred Halliday

Croissantsandpistachio · 24/10/2023 19:50

@Ohlalalalala that looks an interesting one, thanks.

I've not seen Farha on Netflix yet but some Arab friends have recommended it. Whatever you may personally think about the events that Palestinians call the Nakba, it's really important to understand the importance of it and the experience of it by Palestinians to understand the current conflict. And it's a female filmmaker and a woman's story.

Ohlalalalala · 24/10/2023 19:34

@Croissantsandpistachio A Line in the Sand by James Barr is a good read. His other book, Lords of the Desert, Britain's Struggle with America to Dominate the Middle East, is very relevant too.

Here's another book, by a Palestinian this time:
Nakba and Survival: The Story of Palestinians Who Remained in Haifa and the Galilee, 1948-1956 (New Directions in Palestinian Studies Book 6) https://amzn.eu/d/2z8mbZV

"Beginning in 1948, Israeli paramilitary forces began violently displacing Palestinian Arabs from Palestine. Nakba and Survival tells the stories of Palestinians in Haifa and the Galilee during, and in the decade after, mass dispossession. Manna uses oral histories and Palestinian and Israeli archives, diaries, and memories to meticulously reconstruct the social history of the Palestinians who remained and returned to become Israeli citizens. This book focuses in particular on the Galilee, using the story of Manna's own family and their village Majd al-Krum after the establishment of Israel to shed light on the cruelties faced by survivors of the military regime. While scholars of the Palestinian national movement have often studied Palestinian resistance to Israel as related to the armed struggle and the cultural struggle against the Jewish state, Manna shows that remaining in Israel under the brutality of occupation and fighting to return to Palestinian communities after displacement are acts of heroism in their own right."

Croissantsandpistachio · 24/10/2023 19:00

Incidentally (or not, in fact, incidentally), there are a lot of white men sharing their deep and meaningful on the conflict. There are very few non fiction Palestinian authors getting published (more fiction about, especially from the diaspora). Female authors are rare. Rashid Khalidi's book (100 Years War) is one of those but make sure you seek out Arab voices too, not just a bunch of retired diplomats and 'thinkers'.

Croissantsandpistachio · 24/10/2023 18:48

A Line in the Sand is also a great earlier history of the region which looks at how British and French foreign policy shaped the current conflict.

Also recommend a podcast called 'Conflicted' - season 3 looks at the broader regional dynamics and is a potted history of the conflict.

GodDammitCecil · 24/10/2023 18:40

Questioning something is not the same as being against something.

But because people think it is, is why this issue will never be resolved.

Anyone willing to meet in the middle / compromise / talk / try to make progress / see the other side, i.e. be anything other than 100% supportive of their side is eschewed and dismissed.

This issue will never be resolved as long as people think like this.

To gain insights, you definitely need to consider multiple sources of information.

Ohlalalalala · 24/10/2023 18:38

piddocktrumperiness · 24/10/2023 18:25

"The Lemon Tree: An Arab, a Jew, and the Heart of the Middle East" by Sandy Tolan

"Palestine" by Joe Sacco

"My Promised Land: The Triumph and Tragedy of Israel" by Ari Shavit

"The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World" by Avi Shlaim
"The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Pappé- this is a highly regarded book, by many

"Orientalism" by Edward Said

I completely agree with the last two. I'll have a look at the other ones, thank you!

Ohlalalalala · 24/10/2023 18:32

They are against Israel not Jews. It's laughable how some people want to stifle any criticism of Israel by branding anyone who does as antisemitic, even Jews themselves! They are just telling the truth as it is. Being accused of being antisemitic is beyond comprehension.

Edited to say this is a reply to @sunshinesupermum

piddocktrumperiness · 24/10/2023 18:25

"The Lemon Tree: An Arab, a Jew, and the Heart of the Middle East" by Sandy Tolan

"Palestine" by Joe Sacco

"My Promised Land: The Triumph and Tragedy of Israel" by Ari Shavit

"The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World" by Avi Shlaim
"The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Pappé- this is a highly regarded book, by many

"Orientalism" by Edward Said

Swipe left for the next trending thread