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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

I’m not saying I’m pro Israel, however..:

204 replies

Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:31

Surely most people can understand that if Israel was Great Britain and Hamas came and massacred children and innocent people in early October, then Great Britain would go to war and absolutely hammer them back? You just have to look at the response to any other war we’ve had. Do you really think the British government would behave perfectly in this situation? Do you think any western nation would do anything else in response to such an attack? I can genuinely see British people screaming in the streets to murder all babies of Hamas if this was the case. (Not saying it’s right!! I just don’t think we would be better in any way!!)

Personally I find this a really complicated conflict due to the deep history and I feel deeply sorry for civilians on each side.

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flufferknutter · 23/10/2023 20:52

Yes the recent attacks were horrific, nobody's denying that, but two wrongs don't make a right and they're committing war crimes. I'm sure they'll get their own way eventually then everyone can be happy and declare victory. Palestinian people will have ceased to exist, Israel will have the land to themselves and we can all pat each other on the back for supporting them.

Don't expect everyone to be happy about it though.

WrongSwanson · 23/10/2023 20:51

When 9/11 happened hundreds of thousands of people still marched against the Iraq war that followed.

ChickHenLittle · 23/10/2023 20:51

Heck no, I'd be sickened if the UK government took the actions taken by the Israeli government, and furious it was being done in my name.
Public opinion in the UK, and even in the media, seems to now be very much against the actions of the Israeli government.

Original poster
Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:51

TopicalNameChange · 23/10/2023 20:50

@Lelophants you can be pro Palestinians too. And pro Israel. Dividing into camps, or teams, or who you root for is not helpful (I know you know that).

I suppose I didn’t want an immediate ‘well if you’re pro Israel then…’ attack. I feel like
there can be more empathy both ways tbh.

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TopicalNameChange · 23/10/2023 20:50

@Lelophants you can be pro Palestinians too. And pro Israel. Dividing into camps, or teams, or who you root for is not helpful (I know you know that).

Original poster
Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:50

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/10/2023 20:49

Also, many of us aren't British, or not wholly British.

Me neither 🤣

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Original poster
Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:49

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/10/2023 20:49

However looks at Britain’s history and how we treated our ‘colonies’.

If I have spent my life condemning that, am I allowed to have an issue with Israel's actions? You seem to be doing some kind of sixth form debate rather than actually applying ethics to the current situation.

The UK has behaved appallingly. Israel is behaving appallingly. Hamas as well. All appalling.

I’m not saying it’s right.

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MrsTerryPratchett · 23/10/2023 20:49

Also, many of us aren't British, or not wholly British.

Original poster
Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:49

flufferknutter · 23/10/2023 20:48

Israel can exist, just don't take everyone else's land, brutalise and imprison them and treat them like second class citizens.

Again, I totally agree! But I’m talking more about their response to the recent attacks that were objectively horrific.

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MrsTerryPratchett · 23/10/2023 20:49

However looks at Britain’s history and how we treated our ‘colonies’.

If I have spent my life condemning that, am I allowed to have an issue with Israel's actions? You seem to be doing some kind of sixth form debate rather than actually applying ethics to the current situation.

The UK has behaved appallingly. Israel is behaving appallingly. Hamas as well. All appalling.

flufferknutter · 23/10/2023 20:49

My loved ones doing what?

Original poster
Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:48

flufferknutter · 23/10/2023 20:46

I'm not responsible for what the UK government do.

Show quote history

No, but perhaps you can still empathise for why it’s happened, especially if it was your loved ones.

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flufferknutter · 23/10/2023 20:48

Israel can exist, just don't take everyone else's land, brutalise and imprison them and treat them like second class citizens.

Original poster
Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:46

TopicalNameChange · 23/10/2023 20:44

Why not ask for some history etc, or say you are conflicted? When you say 'Im not pro Israel but.. ' you are implying that to support Israel is wrong. It's not wrong.

It is wrong to support the killing of any civilians. It's not wrong to support Israel's right to exisit

The same way I would say I’m not pro Palestine. I’m sorry if it came across that way. I meant to say I’m expressing this as someone who isn’t actually fiercely on one side.

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flufferknutter · 23/10/2023 20:46

Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:45

The government in general has a history of human rights abuses which is why I can’t pretend to be pro Israel. I also agree that Palestinians are very repressed.
However looks at Britain’s history and how we treated our ‘colonies’.

Show quote history

I'm not responsible for what the UK government do.

PurpleChrayne · 23/10/2023 20:45

Not pro-Israel, but I'd bet my house on you preferring to live there than anywhere else in the middle east!

Original poster
Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:45

flufferknutter · 23/10/2023 20:44

No, I still have a moral compass and revenge genocide can never be justified. Plus there's almost 100 years of oppression as a backdrop to this situation.

Plus the Israeli government are far right fascists and that can never be defended.

The government in general has a history of human rights abuses which is why I can’t pretend to be pro Israel. I also agree that Palestinians are very repressed.
However looks at Britain’s history and how we treated our ‘colonies’.

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TopicalNameChange · 23/10/2023 20:44

Why not ask for some history etc, or say you are conflicted? When you say 'Im not pro Israel but.. ' you are implying that to support Israel is wrong. It's not wrong.

It is wrong to support the killing of any civilians. It's not wrong to support Israel's right to exisit

Original poster
Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:44

VivaVivaa · 23/10/2023 20:42

Nah. No matter what happened on British soil I wouldn’t be calling for the government to bomb 100s of kids to death every day.

Neither would I. I don’t think we would be in the majority though. Have you heard the average British person talk about isis and what should happen to shamina begum?

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flufferknutter · 23/10/2023 20:44

No, I still have a moral compass and revenge genocide can never be justified. Plus there's almost 100 years of oppression as a backdrop to this situation.

Plus the Israeli government are far right fascists and that can never be defended.

Original poster
Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:43

Crabble · 23/10/2023 20:39

I totally disagree. Some might but I genuinely don’t think we would demand en masse that our government relentlessly bomb civilians, and many objected to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I agree about Afghanistan and Iraq and think a lot of the country were quite happy to go to town on them!! And we had far less reason.

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VivaVivaa · 23/10/2023 20:42

Nah. No matter what happened on British soil I wouldn’t be calling for the government to bomb 100s of kids to death every day.

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/10/2023 20:41

Have a look back through history. GB did 'hammer them back' in numerous ways. The fire bombing of Dresden has been roundly condemned as an act of inhumanity. Actions in NI during the Troubles. Illegal war in the ME. GB isn't immune to acting in a vile way.

Thousands of dead civilians isn't a war, it's a crime.

Original poster
Lelophants · 23/10/2023 20:41

TopicalNameChange · 23/10/2023 20:33

You can be pro Israel. It's okay to

I know that :) I just have very mixed views on it

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Crabble · 23/10/2023 20:39

I totally disagree. Some might but I genuinely don’t think we would demand en masse that our government relentlessly bomb civilians, and many objected to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

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