What do you understand from the chant 'Free Palestine'?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy5QdRcoOEU/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
maybe free Palestine means not having cages built around them by illegal settlers

I am upset by the persecution of any ethnic groups by anyone.
I am as upset at the plight of the Palestinians as I would be if it were anyone else, not more so.

Why do you think the Armenian genocide which saw a third of its population killed has not been recognised by many countries? Why has Britain not acknowledged it?
Do you not think that perhaps it is because it is a country and population which is of little strategic importance and no economic importance to the powers of the world, and that maintaining relations with certain other countries that are more beneficial to them is seen as important?
In many other countries this is taught, alongside photographic evidence, in the history books at school for every child to see.
Armenians were slaughtered in all possible ways which I won't go into but included being gassed for example. No different to the Jews.

I understand that the persecution of the Jews is as old as time. I also believe in generational trauma and how it can be passed throughout history.

I still feel that while we obviously acknowledge that the Holocaust was an absolute tragedy, by putting it on a level above any other tragedy it means that psychologically any debate, confrontation is seen as different and a special case and is restricted.
I think this is unhelpful when it comes to moving forward.

LOL

People I disagree with = stupid, inferior underdogs of society.

Lol, lol, lol

Only have browse MN for an hour or so to realise there are many people who are less educated and/or less intelligent - whilst it's not a perfect sample it's a reflection of the population. By and large a relatively dis-enfranchised group of people who get there voice heard via SM and ?perhaps more likely to identify with the perceived 'under-dog'

@TopicalNameChange I’m not Jewish but I’ve been absolutely sickened by the anti semitism that has emerged in the past few weeks. But what has really struck me is how ignorant some of the pro Palestinian supporters are of basic facts. I guess that’s what happens when you get your news from Social Media.

Can I just say thank you to all of the posters on this and other threads who tirelessly (and politely) deconstruct so many false statements and anti Semitic narrative. You women are doing so well to unpick this nonsense on thread after thread. Thank you

@icechocs even if you find it 'tiresome' maybe it's an 'unpleasant' thought to keep to yourself and not broadcast on the internet - particularly when so many people are so distressed

@icechocs I’m sorry you find it tiresome but perhaps you need to do some reading. Jews have been persecuted since around 605BC with antisemitism embraced by every one from the Roman Empire, Christians and of course the Middle East. And obviously the Holocaust was by far the biggest genocide in history in terms of casualties.

The countries that officially recognise the Armenian genocide are in the minority. Israel has not officially recognised it but then nor have Australia, much of Africa and of course the British government!

I assume you are just as exercised by the current persecution of groups such as the Uighurs and the Kurds as you are by the plight of the Palestinians.

Death to all Arabs is undoubtedly an abhorrent call to genocide, I agree.

It’s not quite the same though, as it’s so very very blatantly that, so not really open to interpretation in the same way as ‘from the river to the sea’.

You clearly see it as a ‘star-spangled banner’ type song. Which is fine of course, sing away. I certainly am not trying to stop you.

Many don’t, because Israel is in between the river jordan and the Mediterranean Sea, so they see it as call to eradicate Israel. Wiping it off the map etc. So it has connotations that ‘from sea to shining sea’ doesn’t, as the USA covers all the land from sea to sea. It’s not as clear cut as either of your examples, which is why I said I’d err on the side of caution.

But I’m sure we’re both boring everyone now, with this back and forth and going in circles.

I’m going to have another look on the ‘have some pride in yourself thread’, it’s quite amusing 😊

I agree it is only a suspicion.
But keep in mind, on 14 Oct, three days before the hospital blast, he appears to still be a current employee.
https://twitter.com/HananyaNaftali/status/1713126713721262271?s=20

No what could he have done to lose his job on 15th or 16th October? Just in time to not be doing it on 17th October when he did the post claiming IDF had struck the hospital and then deleting it? And why would he post that if he was no longer an employee by then. Or excuse me “an independent contractor” (much like SERCO runs NHS hospitals with the NHS logo but are not “employed by the NHS” because they are contractors)

Very curious. 🤨

The lyric “from sea to shining sea” is in God Bless the USA. I have sung it a few times with American military stationed over here, never once thought it meant eradicate any nonAmerican group living within those lands.

Free Palestine from the river to the sea lyric as being alleged to incite genocide (like the Lehava chant definitely does) just has me scratching my head a bit on how can the “free Palestine from the river to the sea” not mean a love for their land and wanting to defend their rights to live on it? Similar to this song, often sung on Memorial Day and Veterans Day.

If you like you can watch God Bless the USA- 2minutes.

The proof is right there that he wasemployed but, I suspect after the hospital post, he became “not currently employed”

I never said he wasn't formerly employed ( January was 9 months ago) but your "suspicion" isn't enough.

But you do you.

Can’t say I’ve ever sung ‘from sea to shining sea’. Learning it would probably fall somewhere in line with learning about the different types of jihad on my, unfortunately ever growing, to do list.

Sing what you want. Literally no one is stopping you. No one.

Still not sure what the relevance of the ‘death to Arabs’ chant was to my point, but you seemed to want to get it in there, so, good for you I guess?

“Hanaya Naftali, a former member of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s communications staff.” (He was a member)

“When Naftali married his wife, India, in January 2023, Netanyahu spoke at his wedding and said “he works for me. That’s not an easy thing to do. But he does it very well.”

The proof is right there that he was employed but, I suspect after the hospital post, he became “not currently employed”.

I’m a bit shocked you do not recognise damage control for what it is. No one has said he has never had that job…only the he currently doesn’t work for them.

Try what?

Westerners of all religions can sing “land of the free from sea to shining sea” and it be thought of as fabulous patriotic stuff that calls for freedom, justice and equality for all…

But when muslims (and some Christians) sing “Free Palestine from the river to the sea”, it is bizzarely alleged that this very similar song is in no way different to a “Death to all Arabs” chant by Lehava, but directed towards Jews.

I do confess I think it’s looking for an excuse to silence opposition to occupation and oppression.

*He works for Netanhyu who is the PM of Israel, that’s who pays his pay cheque. It’s a government job. It’s a political appointee type job rather than a civil service job, but it’s a government job".

Did you see the attached? Find me proof he's employed in a job where he has any knowledge of what Israel are actually doing and I'll apologise.

There is more to the story.
https://jewishinsider.com/2023/10/hananya-naftali-spokesman-israeli-government-war/

I think he was quickly disavowed and demoted after that post.

No, that doesn’t quite convey ‘peace’ either.

You’re getting worse at this.

Do you want to try again?

How about the “Death to Arabs” chant of Lehava?

You are splitting hairs. Likud is the party in power in Israel with Netanhyu as its head. It’s a bit like me saying oh, so and so works on Sunak’s digital spokesteam and posts updates to SM regarding MoD activities in an official capacity. And you going, no so and so works for the Tories, that’s not the government. 🙄

He works for Netanhyu who is the PM of Israel, that’s who pays his pay cheque. It’s a government job. It’s a political appointee type job rather than a civil service job, but it’s a government job.

It's not his job. He worked for Likud, not the govt.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/oct/19/explaining-a-deleted-x-post-that-said-israel-is-re/

Why does he describe himself as a "media influencer"? Why isn't he on the list of spokespeople which is easily available?

He's a pro Israel blogger who worked for Netanyahu's party. He heard a rumour and posted too soon, not a proper source. And we all agree I think that proper sources are important. If Lerner or Levy had made that tweet, it would be a completely different matter.

I haven’t. Can’t say the different types of jihad have ever been a particular interest of mine. It might well help if we all took the time to learn the various calls of the different types of jihad.

What also might help is that when you have a phrase or chant, which can be interpreted one of two ways, one of the ways being the eradication of an entire people, you might want to err on the side of caution to make your intention clear.

That’s all I’m saying.

Plenty of other sayings to put on the placards which make the peaceful intent clear.

You also said this about Free Palestine- But many people do consider it a call to jihad. Shows you know nothing as to the concept of jihad. Bet you haven’t even heard of greater or lesser jihad.

They say that people fear that which they do not understand. It would help if more people took the time to understand the Islamic religion and cultures.

Honestly, I feel like a two state solution is the only real answer, but I can’t really see it ever happening.
How do you go about unpicking it all?

So much has happened on both sides, I understand the plight of the Palestinian people and the illegal settlements, human rights abuses and it’s just horrendous and I’m thankful I am where I am.

I also understand the feeling of Jewish people who wanted a safe country after the atrocities that have happened over the years, and I agree that Israel has the right to exist. Not the right to keep building these illegal settlements though.

I honestly don’t know what to feel about it all