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Conflict in the Middle East

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Original poster

Reach out to your Jewish and Muslim / Palestinian friends

169 replies

TootlesPoodle · 22/10/2023 12:16

Posting in AIBU for traffic.

I’ve got a few Jewish and Muslim friends (with links to Palestine) and many of them have said they’re a bit saddened that friends / employers etc. aren’t reaching out to them to check in at what is obviously a stressful and upsetting time. Especially when similar terrorist attacks, conflicts / aggressions, murders, civil rights issues are usually followed by a big effort to check in with diaspora people or those with links or family or who may be feeling particularly triggered or scared by seeing people like them being targeted.

Lots of British Jews in particular are struggling with the silence from their friends and colleagues because

  • the global Jewish population is very small which means most diaspora Jews will have relatives and friends in Israel, even if they have never been there and strongly disagree with the current regime
  • most have grown up hearing stories of grandparents and relatives who were murdered in or fled pogroms or concentration camps, but these things were firmly in the PAST, nightmares and stories. So seeing a pogrom style attack happening to Jewish civilians again is terrifying.
  • For lots of diaspora Jews, the idea of Israel as a safe place of refuge that they could go to if there was nowhere else to flee too is comforting. Whether they agree with the current Israeli government or not. Knowing there was at least one safe place where they wouldn’t have to face what their relatives faced if another holocaust or pogroms happened, feels a bit like having an emergency savings account / fuck off fund. You hope you’ll never need it, you don’t need it right now, but knowing it’s there in case the worst happens makes you feel safe. Israel now no longer feels safe, both because of what Hamas have done and because the way the Israeli government is over responding is going to fuel hatred of the country and its citizens and probably diaspora Jews too.

British Muslims or Palestinians, especially those with links to Palestine, will be feeling similarly angry, terrified and stressed. They’ll be worried about friends and relatives, scarred by seeing civilians like them - most of whom probably just want to get on with their lives - being murdered or displaced. Even if they are comforted by seeing marches and demonstrations, they may feel abandoned because the governments of the countries they live in are supporting Israel, and may continue supporting the Israeli government if it’s actions get more extreme.

So if you’re wondering whether you should reach out and check in with a friend or colleague, or asking your HR team to send out a message - do. They will probably really appreciate it.

If any Jews or Muslims or Palestinians or Israelis living in the UK would like to share some human ways we can all help and support you and show compassion during what must be an awful time, please do.

And please, keep it civil. This thread is about humans showing compassion to humans.

OP posts:
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Original poster
TootlesPoodle · 22/10/2023 14:58

I’ve worked with bereaved people before and one of the things they overwhelmingly say about their experience is that they often feel very lonely and abandoned because many of their friends and family don’t know what might be appropriate to say to them or whether saying anything would be welcome - so they either say nothing or ignore what has happened.

The vast vast majority of bereaved people say that isn’t what they want, and that even a clumsily worded - “thinking of you, is there anything I can do, I’m here, I’ve made you a stew” - style message is much much better than getting nothing.

I imagine it’s pretty similar when something like this happens.

We brits tend to prefer silence to saying something that might offend or be seen as even slightly wrongly phrased. But silence - when you’re bereaved, sad, lonely, worried or scared is not what you want - you want connection, comfort and cake, or at least you want to be offered these things so you can say yes to them when you’re ready.

OP posts:
Original poster
TootlesPoodle · 22/10/2023 14:52

PAfsapfujasfp · 22/10/2023 14:42

The OP has presented a very balanced viewpoint regarding checking in on 'both sides' but what I see, on social media etc (from the people who are actually bothered) is immense pressure to stand up for 'a side'. The pro-Palestinian demonstrations for example, and then posts pointing out antisemitism, etc.

Of course, you can, as the OP says, acknowledge that as human beings there has been terrible war and devastation on both sides. As @curtaintwitcher78 says all OP wants is to show compassion but that's not what people want.

They want this to end - and for it to 'end' one side has to capitulate. The pressure is on people to pressure their governments to choose the side they deem correct.

Meanwhile the real motivation for all of this - is not religion and never has been. It's about money, power, diplomacy. For all this talk of 'Muslims being affected' the normalisation of ties with Israel with Saudi Arabia is driven by money, billions of dollars of lucrative deals. And the Saudi Royal family has been careful to condemn both sides instead of, like the 'public' being 100% 'pro-Palestine'.

I have links to both 'sides'. My country doesn't acknowledge Israel. I have a lot of Jewish friends and acquaintances, current colleagues based in Israel.

Of course I've checked in with people based on their individual needs but a blanket message with HR is just silly and only likely to cause a bigger mess with needing people to publicly declare their stances.

Important to remember that what you’re seeing being posted by people on social media is not representative.

A small minority of people are active on social media, a smaller minority of those who are active will speak out on a contentious and highly polarised issue like this one (most people avoid doing so because they know it’s likely to offend or cause backlash) and those who are speaking out are probably mostly heavily invested in one side or another already and pretty deaf to other viewpoints.

This post is about showing compassion for people who are feeling sad, exhausted and lonely

OP posts:
Livelovebehappy · 22/10/2023 14:50

Whilst your post is well meaning and a lovely gesture, we can’t assume all Muslim/Jewish colleagues are united. Some will be, and will stand together to condemn both sides, but many others will hold very strong opposing opinions, not always visible to other people, and to mention it on any level could provoke a very angry emotional response. Obviously if you know a person well, and know their feelings on the situation,then it would be easy to so as you suggest. I work alongside Muslims, who I speak with daily, but I would never presume what their feelings might be.

JSMill · 22/10/2023 14:50

Cropcycle · 22/10/2023 13:34

I follow Standing Together a group of Jewish and Palestinian citizens working together to promote peace, cooperation and social justice.

Im Jewish. I have family in Israel. I am furious that extremists on both sides are making their innocent people pay the ultimate price for their refusal to work together and acknowledge one another’s right to existence. My friends, most of which aren’t Jewish have all showed their support and horror at what’s happening. I felt very touched indeed. So this post, asking people to do the same is so lovely. Thank you .

Where do you follow them?

TheWayOfTheWorld · 22/10/2023 14:47

I've been struggling with this because I don't know what to say - everything that's happening is awful. I know people living in Israel - do I just email to say I'm thinking of them etc? Feels so trite.

Echobelly · 22/10/2023 14:45

Thanks, I am Jewish and have felt no particular reason to be reached out to but have appreciated 2 or 3 non Jewish mates who have done so. I have no close family in Israel so it's more generally extremely depressing than personally anxious (although there is the background worry of serious attacks on our synagogue).

I do hope those with Palestinian friends and family are being checked in with as well.

Freyya · 22/10/2023 14:45

bellac11 · 22/10/2023 14:13

Absolutely this.

There have been several comments in threads over the weeks to this effect and i was on the verge of mentioning/empathising with someone at work who is Jewish and then thought better of it.

Show quote history

I’d say reaching out is not about assuming Jews and Israel are the same. It’s about understanding that there has been a terrifying surge in antisemitism and we are frightened and looking around wondering who is safe.

That Muslim / Isis comparison is not the right one.

PAfsapfujasfp · 22/10/2023 14:42

The OP has presented a very balanced viewpoint regarding checking in on 'both sides' but what I see, on social media etc (from the people who are actually bothered) is immense pressure to stand up for 'a side'. The pro-Palestinian demonstrations for example, and then posts pointing out antisemitism, etc.

Of course, you can, as the OP says, acknowledge that as human beings there has been terrible war and devastation on both sides. As @curtaintwitcher78 says all OP wants is to show compassion but that's not what people want.

They want this to end - and for it to 'end' one side has to capitulate. The pressure is on people to pressure their governments to choose the side they deem correct.

Meanwhile the real motivation for all of this - is not religion and never has been. It's about money, power, diplomacy. For all this talk of 'Muslims being affected' the normalisation of ties with Israel with Saudi Arabia is driven by money, billions of dollars of lucrative deals. And the Saudi Royal family has been careful to condemn both sides instead of, like the 'public' being 100% 'pro-Palestine'.

I have links to both 'sides'. My country doesn't acknowledge Israel. I have a lot of Jewish friends and acquaintances, current colleagues based in Israel.

Of course I've checked in with people based on their individual needs but a blanket message with HR is just silly and only likely to cause a bigger mess with needing people to publicly declare their stances.

ticketstickets · 22/10/2023 14:35

I think most people would very much appreciate it. I have been very touched by the non-Jewish people who have reached out to me.

Just, I am sorry what is happening, hope you don't have any famiy and friends personally affected.

halfpasteleven · 22/10/2023 14:24

curtaintwitcher78 · 22/10/2023 12:31

This is the best post I've seen on the whole subject. No mud slinging. Just compassion for troubled fellow humans.

Well done OP. We need to see more of this. Thank you.

curtaintwitcher78 · 22/10/2023 14:20

TootlesPoodle · 22/10/2023 14:12

I made a point of going and eating at an Uyghur restaurant several times and telling the staff and owners I was so sad about what was happening

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Ignore the naysayers. This is a very positive thread. Thank you.

Freyya · 22/10/2023 14:16

I’m a non-practising Jew. I know people who died in the attacks. I’m afraid for my religious family members. This is how the holocaust started - with propaganda and denial.

I’ve been very touched by the few people who reached out to say they were thinking of me.

I’m exhausted from all the what-about-ery - even on this thread now.

Tiredalwaystired · 22/10/2023 14:15

MooseBreath · 22/10/2023 14:09

As a (secular) Jewish person, I am feeling very nervous about the whole thing. The vast majority of my friends are vocally very "pro Palestine", which is all well and good if it means they want peace, but what they actually want is for Israel to roll over. I am not pro anything except peace and feel for civilians on both sides of this mess.

But I am genuinely scared for my family even though we are nowhere near Israel. Hamas (not Palestine, but currently running everything there) wants to exterminate all Jews, and they are being given a lot of worldwide support at the moment. I do not feel safe.

This could be me too.

bellac11 · 22/10/2023 14:13

Littlelucas · 22/10/2023 13:26

It’s difficult though. On a thread the other day the OP (who was Jewish) basically said it’s anti-Semitic or islamophobic to assume that Jewish/Muslim people have an opinion/want to talk about the current situation. She said you wouldn’t go up to a Muslim person and ask them how they felt about a terrorist attack by isis or whatever so why would you approach a Jewish/Muslim person about this?

So for that reason I probably wouldn’t say anything at all.

Absolutely this.

There have been several comments in threads over the weeks to this effect and i was on the verge of mentioning/empathising with someone at work who is Jewish and then thought better of it.

Original poster
TootlesPoodle · 22/10/2023 14:12

RealOP · 22/10/2023 13:54

I'm curious whether you also reached out to Muslims anytime in the past 5 years about the treatment of Uyghur Muslims.

I made a point of going and eating at an Uyghur restaurant several times and telling the staff and owners I was so sad about what was happening

OP posts:
AliceOlive · 22/10/2023 14:11

I have done this with both Jewish and Muslim Friends who have links to Palestine. They expressed appreciation. Many are suffering in fear and silence right now. I’m in US.

TheWayTheLightFalls · 22/10/2023 14:10

I’m Jewish. Messages from friends have been very welcome . Just “Thinking of you, hope family are ok” type.

I would love a walk or vigil for Jewish and Muslim (or Palestinian) women. I’d like people to see ordinary members of the community reaching out in love and solidarity rather than “Well you invaded x in 19-whatever!” “Well we’ve lived here since 18-thing!” “Well here’s a link to al-jazeera!” and so on. It’s exhausting and unhelpful.

MooseBreath · 22/10/2023 14:09

As a (secular) Jewish person, I am feeling very nervous about the whole thing. The vast majority of my friends are vocally very "pro Palestine", which is all well and good if it means they want peace, but what they actually want is for Israel to roll over. I am not pro anything except peace and feel for civilians on both sides of this mess.

But I am genuinely scared for my family even though we are nowhere near Israel. Hamas (not Palestine, but currently running everything there) wants to exterminate all Jews, and they are being given a lot of worldwide support at the moment. I do not feel safe.

quizaa · 22/10/2023 14:07

Maireas · 22/10/2023 13:00

https://www.womenwagepeace.org.il/en/
There is this women's movement for peace, a grassroots Israeli organisation, but inclusive and reaching out to a sister group in Palestine, the Women of the Sun. A tiny light in a dark sky.
Just like you referred to, @Abra1t .

Sadly one of the women who founded this excellent organisation is missing presumed dead from the Hamas terror attacks on Oct 8th.

I echo others in saying thank you OP, this is a good thread.

nearlywinteragain · 22/10/2023 14:03

I absolutely don't assume my Jewish friends and clients want to talk Middle East politics with me.
I have however mentioned to them that they have been in my thoughts given recent events.
I was surprised by how strongly some of my clients responded telling me that they lived in areas with very small Jewish communities and they appreciated my thoughts ( I live in the USA)

If I worked with Palestinians I would extend the same thoughts to them.

EdithStourton · 22/10/2023 14:01

Littlelucas · 22/10/2023 13:26

It’s difficult though. On a thread the other day the OP (who was Jewish) basically said it’s anti-Semitic or islamophobic to assume that Jewish/Muslim people have an opinion/want to talk about the current situation. She said you wouldn’t go up to a Muslim person and ask them how they felt about a terrorist attack by isis or whatever so why would you approach a Jewish/Muslim person about this?

So for that reason I probably wouldn’t say anything at all.

You don't need to ask for their opinion, you just say that you're very sorry about the current situation and hope that they're okay.

YoDood · 22/10/2023 14:01

I was thinking about doing something along these lines with friends I have in both communities.

But to be honest the dialogue I have seen on MN is so extreme and intolerant of any more moderate viewpoint that I am concerned about this reflecting what might happen in real life.

I’m very much of the point of view that Hamas are horrific, evil monsters who deserved to be wiped out. I am also deeply concerned by the state-sanctioned obliteration of innocents in Gaza and Israel’s breaches of international law.

However it seems to be (on MN at least) that it is very difficult to express concerns about Israel’s approach without being accused of supporting Hamas and their practices of rape and beheading babies. Conversely, any suggestion that Hamas are responsible for this escalation is treated as an endorsement of Israel’s indiscriminate retaliation and evidence of ignorance about Israel’s past transgressions.

I wholeheartedly with your sentiment OP, but am concerned that in practice people might want more than a general expression of compassion and indeed may find anything other than absolute support disappointing.

Original poster
TootlesPoodle · 22/10/2023 13:59

Littlelucas · 22/10/2023 13:26

It’s difficult though. On a thread the other day the OP (who was Jewish) basically said it’s anti-Semitic or islamophobic to assume that Jewish/Muslim people have an opinion/want to talk about the current situation. She said you wouldn’t go up to a Muslim person and ask them how they felt about a terrorist attack by isis or whatever so why would you approach a Jewish/Muslim person about this?

So for that reason I probably wouldn’t say anything at all.

I imagine the OP on that thread was probably more talking about engaging Jewish or Muslim people in a debate or discussion about the politics of the situation, or expecting them to condemn one side or another, or tackling them in some other vaguely confrontational way.

I don’t imagine that a compassionate check in or message of love, (or cake) is going to go down badly. Though you know your friends best.

I think the issue feels quite relevant for most Jewish people for the reasons explained upthread, regardless of whether they have direct links to Israel or not. Not least because the people who were attacked were attacked because they were ethnically Jewish, rather than Israeli government supporters.

For Muslims perhaps it’s less personally relevant unless they do have links to Palestine, as the Muslim diaspora is much larger and there are a lot of Muslim majority countries in the world and only one Jewish one. I’m no expert either way. Can any Muslims weigh in here?

OP posts:
PAfsapfujasfp · 22/10/2023 13:55

Littlelucas · 22/10/2023 13:26

It’s difficult though. On a thread the other day the OP (who was Jewish) basically said it’s anti-Semitic or islamophobic to assume that Jewish/Muslim people have an opinion/want to talk about the current situation. She said you wouldn’t go up to a Muslim person and ask them how they felt about a terrorist attack by isis or whatever so why would you approach a Jewish/Muslim person about this?

So for that reason I probably wouldn’t say anything at all.

I agree.

There's also a lot more to this situation that just religion. Even other Muslim countries are 'backing' different sides.
Also while this is currently the subject of headlines there has been far more conflict between/within Muslim countries. South vs North Sudan, sunni vs shia, etc etc.

If you're not 'checking in' for the latter why the big fuss about this?

Also, as much as people have feelings about this. The UK is in a shit condition now. Winter is approaching, COL, redundancies everywhere. Many people are struggling to survive. They don't have the bandwidth to 'feel abandoned' be angry/terrified/stressed about happenings in other parts of the world. I'm from a majority Muslim country and most people are concerned with surviving.

If someone is a friend you know has strong feelings definitely. But reaching out to randoms solely based on religion is quite othering. Assuming their opinions and feelings.

RealOP · 22/10/2023 13:54

I'm curious whether you also reached out to Muslims anytime in the past 5 years about the treatment of Uyghur Muslims.