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Conflict in the Middle East

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Reach out to your Jewish and Muslim / Palestinian friends

169 replies

TootlesPoodle · 22/10/2023 12:16

Posting in AIBU for traffic.

I’ve got a few Jewish and Muslim friends (with links to Palestine) and many of them have said they’re a bit saddened that friends / employers etc. aren’t reaching out to them to check in at what is obviously a stressful and upsetting time. Especially when similar terrorist attacks, conflicts / aggressions, murders, civil rights issues are usually followed by a big effort to check in with diaspora people or those with links or family or who may be feeling particularly triggered or scared by seeing people like them being targeted.

Lots of British Jews in particular are struggling with the silence from their friends and colleagues because

  • the global Jewish population is very small which means most diaspora Jews will have relatives and friends in Israel, even if they have never been there and strongly disagree with the current regime
  • most have grown up hearing stories of grandparents and relatives who were murdered in or fled pogroms or concentration camps, but these things were firmly in the PAST, nightmares and stories. So seeing a pogrom style attack happening to Jewish civilians again is terrifying.
  • For lots of diaspora Jews, the idea of Israel as a safe place of refuge that they could go to if there was nowhere else to flee too is comforting. Whether they agree with the current Israeli government or not. Knowing there was at least one safe place where they wouldn’t have to face what their relatives faced if another holocaust or pogroms happened, feels a bit like having an emergency savings account / fuck off fund. You hope you’ll never need it, you don’t need it right now, but knowing it’s there in case the worst happens makes you feel safe. Israel now no longer feels safe, both because of what Hamas have done and because the way the Israeli government is over responding is going to fuel hatred of the country and its citizens and probably diaspora Jews too.

British Muslims or Palestinians, especially those with links to Palestine, will be feeling similarly angry, terrified and stressed. They’ll be worried about friends and relatives, scarred by seeing civilians like them - most of whom probably just want to get on with their lives - being murdered or displaced. Even if they are comforted by seeing marches and demonstrations, they may feel abandoned because the governments of the countries they live in are supporting Israel, and may continue supporting the Israeli government if it’s actions get more extreme.

So if you’re wondering whether you should reach out and check in with a friend or colleague, or asking your HR team to send out a message - do. They will probably really appreciate it.

If any Jews or Muslims or Palestinians or Israelis living in the UK would like to share some human ways we can all help and support you and show compassion during what must be an awful time, please do.

And please, keep it civil. This thread is about humans showing compassion to humans.

OP posts:
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Freyya · 22/10/2023 19:36

vivainsomnia · 22/10/2023 19:04

But I have family who were killed purely because they were Jewish (like me)
My family did too but those who survived wanted the new generations to move on. What might happen in the future is for the future. I am much less frightened of being killed because I am Jewish than being killed by a nasty illness or car accident. I don't dwell on those things, just focus on trying to be a good human being and hopefully showing a good example.

I have relatives who are rabbis and they have to live behind alarmed security gates due to the antisemitism that exists even when things aren’t like they are now.

BlurredEdges · 22/10/2023 19:28

vivainsomnia · 22/10/2023 16:24

I'm a non practicing Jews, whose a number of family members died in camps.

I don't identify myself as a jewish person. I am horrified by what is happening there but don't feel it concerns me personally in everyway. My family doesn't and never has associated themselves with Israel. We are European Jews and that's that.

I would find it very odd if someone came to me to share sympathy. Why assume I'm concerned just because I happen to have Jewish blood?

Hope you haven't used 23andme. I have.

https://www.wired.com/story/23andme-credential-stuffing-data-stolen/

The timing of this is not a coincidence, in my opinion.

I don't know any Jews who don't feel shaken and horrified, if not directly by what's happened in Israel, then by the huge surge of antisemitism here.

23andMe User Data Stolen in Targeted Attack on Ashkenazi Jews

At least a million data points from 23andMe accounts appear to have been exposed on BreachForums. While the scale of the campaign is unknown, 23andMe says it's working to verify the data.

https://www.wired.com/story/23andme-credential-stuffing-data-stolen

BlurredEdges · 22/10/2023 19:23

Freyya · 22/10/2023 14:16

I’m a non-practising Jew. I know people who died in the attacks. I’m afraid for my religious family members. This is how the holocaust started - with propaganda and denial.

I’ve been very touched by the few people who reached out to say they were thinking of me.

I’m exhausted from all the what-about-ery - even on this thread now.

Yeah, all of this.

I've had messages of kindness and solidarity from many non-jewish friends and colleagues and every single one of them made me feel a lot better and less alone.

PAfsapfujasfp · 22/10/2023 19:22

Ketzele · 22/10/2023 18:56

This thread has taught me a lot about why so many friends are being silent. I find it baffling how many are assuming that expressing concern is synonymous with asking for someone's views on the conflict.

I was very upset yesterday when an old Israeli friend posted his daughter's account of Hamas attacking her kibbutz. She spent hours in a safe room waiting for death. She focused not on the details but on the feelings and the trauma, then and since. Anyone listening to her would feel tremendous compassion for her, and would have learned a lot - for example, how she feels about all the people now telling her she was 'lucky'.

Of course, anyone who is not a soulless ghoul also reflects on the similar experiences of those trapped in Gaza. Listening to those affected should expand our circle of concern, not restrict it. I am enormously depressed by the number of people - including my own friends, and previous posters on this thread - who seem to think that the most important thing is to pick the right side and shout about it.

You're getting the wrong end of the stick.
Nobody is 'assuming' anything. Posters, myself included are merely sharing our own experiences of how expressing concern has turned into needing to pick a side. Zero assumption, just experience.
Also, we have not equated expressing concern to asking for views. The people we're checking in with have.

I mean, if you want to think we're making things up and continue to blame us that's your call.

You are also overlooking that many countries have state sponsored anti-certain religions and indoctrination. You think everyone has 'compassion' for all humans but that's not true. Unless you have lived it, it's difficult to understand.

EdithStourton · 22/10/2023 19:19

TheWayOfTheWorld · 22/10/2023 14:47

I've been struggling with this because I don't know what to say - everything that's happening is awful. I know people living in Israel - do I just email to say I'm thinking of them etc? Feels so trite.

That's pretty much what I did to a friend I've not been much in contact with for years. Just a short note saying I was thinking of them, and hoping they stayed safe. I received a very appreciative reply very quickly.

TootlesPoodle · 22/10/2023 19:15

Thanks everyone for contributing to this, would be good to get some Muslim / Palestinian perspectives if anyone is willing to share something that would help them

OP posts:
vivainsomnia · 22/10/2023 19:04

But I have family who were killed purely because they were Jewish (like me)
My family did too but those who survived wanted the new generations to move on. What might happen in the future is for the future. I am much less frightened of being killed because I am Jewish than being killed by a nasty illness or car accident. I don't dwell on those things, just focus on trying to be a good human being and hopefully showing a good example.

Maireas · 22/10/2023 19:00

Too true, @Ketzele .
I don't know what's happening in this country, but having some common decency and humanity shouldn't be that hard.

Ketzele · 22/10/2023 18:56

This thread has taught me a lot about why so many friends are being silent. I find it baffling how many are assuming that expressing concern is synonymous with asking for someone's views on the conflict.

I was very upset yesterday when an old Israeli friend posted his daughter's account of Hamas attacking her kibbutz. She spent hours in a safe room waiting for death. She focused not on the details but on the feelings and the trauma, then and since. Anyone listening to her would feel tremendous compassion for her, and would have learned a lot - for example, how she feels about all the people now telling her she was 'lucky'.

Of course, anyone who is not a soulless ghoul also reflects on the similar experiences of those trapped in Gaza. Listening to those affected should expand our circle of concern, not restrict it. I am enormously depressed by the number of people - including my own friends, and previous posters on this thread - who seem to think that the most important thing is to pick the right side and shout about it.

nowordsforthis · 22/10/2023 18:24

I'm Jewish and Israeli (originally from UK but have lived in Israel for most of my adult life). I really appreciated all overseas friends who reached out during the days after October 7. It allowed me to share a bit of my personal experience in ways I still don't have the words to do on social media. Nobody tried to be political. Though I did notice that for some reason, aside from Jewish friends in the UK, most people who checked in were non-UK people - I heard from family members in the UK that people had been asking after me, but for some reason they felt embarrassed to write directly! Guys, it's fine to check in with your friends. If I can check in with my Palestinian friends, it's totally fine to check in with whoever you feel might like to know you're thinking about them.

Maireas · 22/10/2023 18:14

Those of us who aren't Jewish can't imagine the fear. This is a horrific situation, and I hope that you can all stay safe. 🙏

Maireas · 22/10/2023 18:13

MarySmit · 22/10/2023 17:52

Thank you for sharing. I'm Jewish and Israeli and the silence has, for the most part, been deafening. Even though I have family in Israel, no one, apart from one, has asked how they are, or how I am. I'm very worried, as are they. They are living in a war zone currently, afraid to leave their bunkers, and hearing of dreadful stories how friends and colleagues have died.

Thank you pointing out that this is a repeat trauma for many. Some families have lost members over multiple generations, all murdered for being Jewish.

What a terrible situation. 💐

MooseBreath · 22/10/2023 17:59

@vivainsomnia I am also not religious and don't tell a lot of people that I am Jewish, and I don't attend synagogue. But I have family who were killed purely because they were Jewish (like me). I have Jewish blood, as do my sons, and that can be traced. Who is to say we could not be targeted by an extremist anti-Jewish organization like Hamas? Since there are so few Jews in the world, "extermination" is something that could genuinely happen and it is terrifying. That's why as a secular non-practicing Jew, I class it as "us".

ssd · 22/10/2023 17:58

I did, as soon as this kicked off. Anyone who is a real friend would have been in touch by now.

CloudyAgain · 22/10/2023 17:54

vivainsomnia · 22/10/2023 17:41

Because people are killing us and calling for us to be killed
But I don't see myself as part of the 'us'. Not many people know I'm Jewish because it's not something I feel the need to mention and those who know don't care one way or another.

I appreciate that you don't feel that way- but not feeling Jewish, not practicing, being thoroughly secular did not save any Jewish person from Hitler and it does not 'save' you from a generalised antisemitism today- murderous or not.

And that's the point, really.

MarySmit · 22/10/2023 17:52

Thank you for sharing. I'm Jewish and Israeli and the silence has, for the most part, been deafening. Even though I have family in Israel, no one, apart from one, has asked how they are, or how I am. I'm very worried, as are they. They are living in a war zone currently, afraid to leave their bunkers, and hearing of dreadful stories how friends and colleagues have died.

Thank you pointing out that this is a repeat trauma for many. Some families have lost members over multiple generations, all murdered for being Jewish.

DaftQuestionForToday · 22/10/2023 17:45

Freyya · 22/10/2023 16:04

I’m starting to think a lot of people don’t realise we are in turmoil and fear right now. Antisemitism has surged, synagogues are being burned down, but some people seem unaware. I feel like i’m living in a parallel universe.

thanks for being kind to your neighbour.

@Freyya

Honestly I have no idea. But thanks for asking the question

if you think of anything, get back to me 😊I'd like to just somehow 'know' these things, but I just don't.

I, to some degree, understand the turmoil people are in. The difficulty is knowing who they are.

vivainsomnia · 22/10/2023 17:41

Because people are killing us and calling for us to be killed
But I don't see myself as part of the 'us'. Not many people know I'm Jewish because it's not something I feel the need to mention and those who know don't care one way or another.

Ibizafun · 22/10/2023 17:20

Op thank you so much. Supporting us online against thinly veiled antisemitism is a great and much appreciated method of support.

Ididivfama · 22/10/2023 17:04

Freyya · 22/10/2023 16:04

I’m starting to think a lot of people don’t realise we are in turmoil and fear right now. Antisemitism has surged, synagogues are being burned down, but some people seem unaware. I feel like i’m living in a parallel universe.

thanks for being kind to your neighbour.

I agree and they are so lucky they don’t realise. Even I feel a bit anxious when on social media you have some people sharing free Palestine memes with horrible videos of dead children, then others sharing loads about Israel and what’s happened there. I don’t want them to think I’m ‘not on side’. But for anyone who I know is actually Jewish or has Palestinian links (not many actually) I’ve just messaged saying I hope they’re ok. They really have just replied ‘thanks’. :) the people I know are decent people who are smart and don’t like anyone being butchered.

TootlesPoodle · 22/10/2023 16:35

muggart · 22/10/2023 16:08

I agree. Jews aren't Israel. Let's not treat them as one and the same.

Jews absolutely aren’t Israel (and Palestinians aren’t Hamas) but most diaspora Jews I know (and many on this thread) are feeling at least somewhat affected by this because…

  • the global Jewish population is very small so most diaspora Jews will have some family or friends in Israel even if they’ve never been and don’t agree with the regime
  • Hammas attacked and killed Jewish civilians, not military bases or government officials or members of the IDF. If you’re also a Jewish civilian, this is going to affect you, especially when you’ve grown up on stories of how your family was murdered, persecuted or expelled for being Jewish civilians.
  • For Jews throughout history there has been nowhere where they could go to where they would definitely be “safe” from persecution, pogroms and systematic murder. The idea that Israel is there, as a safe place where they could go to if the worst happened and pogroms or another holocaust started, is very reassuring for many. Now because of what Hamas have done and because of how the state is retaliating, it doesn’t feel safe anymore. This means Jews are once again stuck hoping that the countries where they live as a historically persecuted minority, decide not to turn against them or kill them, or that other non Jewish majority countries will let them in - and historically that has not worked out well.
  • what Hamas has done and what the Israeli state is doing in retaliation has already led to calls to target diaspora Jews and a bit rise in antisemitic attacks.

So yes, Jews aren’t Israel, but it’s very hard for them not to be affected by this. On a similar note Palestinian civilians aren’t Hamas, that isn’t going to protect them from rocket strikes.

OP posts:
Freyya · 22/10/2023 16:28

vivainsomnia · 22/10/2023 16:24

I'm a non practicing Jews, whose a number of family members died in camps.

I don't identify myself as a jewish person. I am horrified by what is happening there but don't feel it concerns me personally in everyway. My family doesn't and never has associated themselves with Israel. We are European Jews and that's that.

I would find it very odd if someone came to me to share sympathy. Why assume I'm concerned just because I happen to have Jewish blood?

Because people are killing us and calling for us to be killed.

vivainsomnia · 22/10/2023 16:24

I'm a non practicing Jews, whose a number of family members died in camps.

I don't identify myself as a jewish person. I am horrified by what is happening there but don't feel it concerns me personally in everyway. My family doesn't and never has associated themselves with Israel. We are European Jews and that's that.

I would find it very odd if someone came to me to share sympathy. Why assume I'm concerned just because I happen to have Jewish blood?

PAfsapfujasfp · 22/10/2023 16:23

CloudyAgain · 22/10/2023 16:13

As i have said on this thread and many others. I am Jewish. i am heartbroken and i am afraid. I have seen such rabid antisemitism- such glee and joy at what has happened. I am heartbroken at that and heartbroken that innocent people from all sides are suffering so horribly.

if anyone reached out to me (not my friend who asked me if she should keep her travel plans to israel - Like I somehow know the future) then I would respond exactly as I have said.

Thank you for thinking of us.

Then you are a rational person. I have also reached out to friends whom I know are affected, and gotten such responses.
But - the key word here - is that I know them! And I know what their response would be.

You have seen such rabid antisemitism - glee and joy at what's happening. I'm very sorry to say that such sentiments are shared openly by many other behind closed doors. And in my country they don't even try to hide it!

I cannot in good faith 'reach out' to people that I don't know, checking in with their feelings, only for them to share their antisemitism with me and wanting me to validate that. Equally, if they were anti-Palestine and thought all the killing was justified. Of course, I can call them out (and I have done so - for people who expressed such sentiment) but the end result, as the OP thinks, isn't 'compassion' for fellow human beings. It's people wanting their anger at the injustice committed by the 'other side' acknowledged. And instead of being grateful for people 'checking-in', anger that the person isn't blindly validating their hatred. So what have I achieved? Apart from the new knowledge that someone is prejudiced and a bigot?

In fact, perhaps outing but one of my Jewish friends is going to travel to my country for my wedding. I'm quite worried about his safety, but he insists. I will certainly be keeping him close and to safe, very touristy multicultural areas.

I cannot really comment on what Jewish people think of others as my friends have never expressed any sentiments against other religions (in fact unlike Christianity and Islam, proselytization does not seme to be a key tenet of Judaism) but there are entire countries that think nothing of open antisemitism and don't acknowledge Israel as a country. Of course, Israel =/= Jews. But they are inextricably linked.

TootlesPoodle · 22/10/2023 16:20

JamSandle · 22/10/2023 16:06

I'm sorry but there's so much going on in the world right now. People can't be there for everyone.

@JamSandle totally fair enough. If you don’t have the emotional capacity or time to reach out right now because of other stuff that is going on, that is of course fine and right

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