Channel 4 News report into IDF evidence for Gaza hospital bombing

Killing any innocent children is disgusting. It's possible to condemn both.
Is what's going on now a fair retaliation? I don't believe it is.

Gosh your comment is a very selective reporting of what was said in that article. The relevant section actually reads:

Asked if the State of Israel has the right to exist, he paused then said: "No. Why? You are coming from America and you take my house, you came from Britain and you took my brother's house, you took this. This is a settlement.

"You are not a citizen. We are the owner of this area - Arabic area. This is well known as an Islamic area."
Asked why Hamas was spending its money on missiles and rockets rather than on its people, he said: "Give me one example in the world where they have no military ministry to defend themselves?

"We are here protecting ourselves against aggression, against the Israeli aggression. So if it is forbidden, this is a hypocrisy."

Pressed once more on whether Hamas was prepared to share the land with Jews, he said: "We are not against Jews because Jews were living this area for many centuries. I'm speaking about occupation."

This. The atrocities committed by Hamas were unspeakable. No-one can possibly try to reach a peace deal with such people. They use their own people as human shields as they are still launching rockets as Israel from peoples homes, schools and hospitals.

And yet it’s Hamas that has “destroy Israel” and “kill the Jews” in their manifesto and talk about it in interviews and are known for this viewpoint through the Middle East. But sure it’s really a reverse uno.

your bias is showing when you think killing innocent Palestinian children is an atrocity but killing innocent Israeli ones isn’t.

Israel have a very well funded military, hugely backed by the USA. If modern warfare technology can find Bin Laden in a cave, they can do a better job of isolating Hamas.
It is not ok to annihilate a population because of one group.

This, in spades.
Two wrongs do not make a right and Israel's response is totally disproportionate. We know what the end goal is, they've told us and we have to just sit by and watch whilst the Palestinian people are annihilated.

This is not about ending Hamas, Israel could do that without killing thousands of Palestinians.

Could you explain how?

This is not about ending Hamas, Israel could do that without killing thousands of Palestinians.

How, given that Hamas are using them as human shields?

Would love to hear your solution to that.

I don’t think you are very well read then. You must do a bit of googling.

The worst atrocities you've ever read about? What about everything that Israel has done to civilians since then? Does killing innocent children not count as an atrocity?

This is not about ending Hamas, Israel could do that without killing thousands of Palestinians. This is about wiping out an entire race.
Israel wanted Hamas to take charge, anyway, so that they had an "excuse" for this genocide, which is what they've always wanted to do.

It seems when a ‘democratic’ country sanctions terrorism all ‘democracies’ have to support it and call it defence. Then you can do whatever you want under that banner. We have seen this before with the behaviour of US, Iraq war, the existence of Guantanamo Bay. As long as you continue to state you are a ‘democracy’ you can get away with unthinkable acts openly.

By being democratic it literally means we have put in place leaders who represent us and we stand behind what our leaders say and do. Their actions stand for us. In turn then when outsiders feel the countries actions are unacceptable they respond by terrorist acts towards the entire people (the people who stood behind and all theoretically supported those actions).

I don’t know what the Israeli people thought about Netanyahu’s oppressive policies. I don’t know whether most Israelis turned a blind eye or actively supported it but it seems that as long as the rights of women, economic development, LGBTQ etc within Israel were protected, whatever he was doing in their name to other humans didn’t affect them. This really confuses me about the west’s obsession with democracy. Such big nasty things get done under that label but as long as they happen to others outside of the country and the people in the country get their rights and parties it’s fine.

Here's a senior Hamas leader in 2021 saying that Israel doesn't have the right to exist

https://news.sky.com/story/hamas-co-founder-ceasefire-will-hold-for-now-but-no-peace-with-israel-without-justice-for-palestinians-12315339

So Palestine isn’t its own country with its own government who decided where its resources go? They never do anything to provoke Israel or threaten them, they have zero support from other countries world wide or in the Middle East. They are completely free of all consequences for all the choices that lead to this point. Again I don’t agree with Israel’s actions but I’m sick of this white saviour narrative that the west has towards Palestine. They could have a two state solution and peace if they wanted it more than they want the annihilation of Israel. But their leaders don’t, and here we are. And I, in my 6th month of pregnancy hormones literally cry every day thinking about it.

I genuinely don’t know what the answer is, but having read some of the forensic reports from the 7 October massacre, they are the worst atrocities I’ve ever read about. I don’t blame Israel for wanting to wipe out Hamas, what they have done is beyond comprehension. Hamas have admitted they laid low, pretending to govern Gaza while they planned this. Hamas demonstrably don’t care about Palestinians. Having seen and heard what they did, I also believe they’re not above lying and fabricating “evidence” to suit their agenda.

I also note that while Hamas claim they have run out of water, food and fuel for citizens, they have not run out of rockets to fire into Israel.

I am not Israeli or Jewish, by the way, I actually come from a Muslim family though I am atheist now. My sympathy was with the Palestinians for many years, but these atrocities have firmly switched my sympathies.

Or, you could consider the Holocaust.

When people say they want to kill Jews, history tells us that they should be taken very seriously.

This is why Holocaust denial is big among anti-semites.

That cancels out the evil of the occupation and control does it? How very kind of them.

I don't think Israel is free of faults at all. But the failure to reach a lasting peaceful solution cannot be laid exclusively at their door, and a lot of their actions do stem from a need to safeguard the security of their population.

Israel have systemically made it impossible - illegal - for Palestinaians in Gaza to be self sufficient. They pour cement into water pipes, the bombed and destroyed the only electrical power plant I Gaza, and fisherman can only fish a very limited and shallow area off the coast.

I cant believe i have to say this, but Israel is not some benign benefactor for the Palestinians. Israel has got 2 million of them caged in a small area (Gaza) and they limit the food and supplies. Those Palestinians have no rights. They cannot leave Gaza or make their lives better. And now Israel are indiscriminately carpet bombing those people, while simultaneously keeping every crossing out of Gaza closed. Whole families are being slaughtered. Hospitals, schools, residential areas, mosques, a church. Its genocide.

And what does liberation even mean? “Free Palestine” is a lovely soundbite, but really they mean wiping out the Israeli population and Israel. Which is already mostly made up of middle easterners who were forced to leave other Middle Eastern countries due to their religion.

Palestine are given enough aid money to being freeing themselves if only they invested it in the betterment of citizens rather than weapons and terrorism.

I did over the last few years genuinely believe that Hamas had softened theor stance. The Israelis did too - there were more Gazans given permits to cross to border to work in Israel, for instance.

That cancels out the evil of the occupation and control does it? How very kind of them.

i agree with you that this is a human rights violation and abhorrent, but also Palestine is complicit in not having their own fuel sources, water pipes and food. They receive billions in aid, famously hamas used money sent for water pipes to make them independent from Israel water on making bombs to attack Israel. So how much is Israel and how much is being responsible for their own situation? But jobs and infrastructure and food would make the population comfortable and Hamas wouldn’t be able to manipulate and control them. Which they do from their mansions in Qatar. Israel have invested in defending themselves after being under constant attack, made an iron dome, train conscripts, precisely because of the relentless attack from people who would rather live in nothing and spend all that they’re given on annihilating their neighbour. And when their neighbour has better weapons decry it as unfair. I am deeply sympathetic to the situation a the Palestinian people and women and children who are collateral damage in this mess but it’s certainly not as black and white as saying Israel is bad for being on an aggressive defensive after what happened on 7th October, and all Palestinians are innocent victims.

Palestinian ambassador to the UK sums it up:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/video/dehumanising-palestinians-needs-to-end/vi-AA1hSqSK?ocid=socialshare&pc=U591&cvid=27bc772779ad447e9fc93aeb79ded8b5&ei=15

@WildBactrian even the updated charter is wildly contradictory:

"advocates such a state as transitional but also advocates "liberation of all of Palestine".[14][15] The new document also states that the group doesn't seek war with the Jewish people but only against Zionism which it holds responsible for "occupation of Palestine"."

I did over the last few years genuinely believe that Hamas had softened theor stance. The Israelis did too - there were more Gazans given permits to cross to border to work in Israel, for instance.

But then the terrorist attack happened. And those actions spoke very loudly.

This.

@SomeCatFromJapan

Maybe stop treating Palestinians like "human animals"? That would be a start.

@SomeCatFromJapan you've proven my point with your source. Largely US intelligence and media reports. But did you even read the whole thing?
@Efacsen you're right, people will think a respected international news channel like Aljazeera is biased and unreliable because it's based in an Arab country where people 'aren't like us.'