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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Channel 4 News report into IDF evidence for Gaza hospital bombing

269 replies

Mammillaria · 21/10/2023 22:34

This was released yesterday but doesn't seem to have been given much coverage, possibly because it's not been able to draw any conclusions.

x.com/Channel4News/status/1715437877604049094?s=20

I had found the evidence presented by the IDF to be fairly convincing, so I found this an unsettling watch (even though it does not prove that they were responsible).

I expect I shall get criticism from those who have claimed from the start that the IDF are liars, and more criticism from those who see posting this as siding with the terrorist narrative.

I'm still struggling to fully comprehend the enormity and nuances of this conflict.

https://x.com/channel4news/status/1715437877604049094?s=46&t=XYCkdDj61RZq8aLpTC4ujA

OP posts:
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11
NotTerfNorCis · 22/10/2023 19:13

The media were quick to suggest Israel carried out the hospital attack. Now it's clear Hamas did it

Is it? Channel 4 did an investigation that showed it was likely Israel. In the OP?

NotTerfNorCis · 22/10/2023 19:10

I do hope you're not suggesting that the Palestinians are on the side of, or should be on the side of, the terrorists who committed that atrocity.

I'm perfectly sure you understood my point.

Hamas are religious fanatics who don't seem to have treated the Palestinians well. However, many of Hamas will be drawn from the Palestinian population. They are people's fathers, brothers, husbands, sons. Their fight is for Palestinian liberation.

Israel on the other hand is denying electricity and water, killing thousands of Palestinians including children , and destroying homes.

Why would the Palestinians who aren't in Hamas risk their lives on behalf of their long term oppressor?

EasternStandard · 22/10/2023 15:20

I‘m glad mnhq is deleting posts today

SomeCatFromJapan · 22/10/2023 14:47

@caringcarer so did French and Canadian intelligence, reported in the Guardian this morning.

I know that obviously other targets are being bombed and there is an absolutely tragic loss of civilian life. But it was somehow that event that seemed to stir up a shockwave on anger, and that was the one proven to likely be misreported.

caringcarer · 22/10/2023 14:46

Heelenahandbasket · 22/10/2023 11:58

the channel 4 news report is ridiculous and as one sided anti Israel as their usual coverage. The recording is faked because of “syntax and accents” according to their “experts”? What on earth- that’s not enough to say a recording is faked- many people living in Gaza (especially terrorists) have lived in other places and don’t speak in the same way. PIJ annd hamas anre both sponsored by Iran. Equally Israel has a great many native speakers of Arabic who could make a convincing fake if they wanted.

Either way, we can see conclusively from the objective evidence including the small size of the crater, the lack of damage to the surrounding buildings and the many videos showing a rocket being fired from Gaza and exploding in the hospital car park that it was not an Israeli missile rather it was clearly a rocket from a terror group in Gaza. it also seems extremely unlikely that 500 people died.

what is shocking is that our mainstream news media reported that Israel bombed a hospital and 500 died on the day so of Hamas (who they misleadingly called the “Palestinian health authorities”). This caused actual violence on the ground and the cancellation of talks on peace. Yet still the bbc hasn’t even tried to provide an accurate report even though their own verification shows all the evidence backs up a Gaznan rocket (and bafflingly the come to the decision it’s “inconclusive”).

A doctor in the hospital said the missile landed in the car park and there were casualties but many fewer than originally reported by Hamas and more were injured than killed according to medic.

caringcarer · 22/10/2023 14:44

Worddance · 22/10/2023 10:29

I really think this didn't happen in the way you perceive it did.

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Actually I think the statement was pretty accurate. The media were quick to suggest Israel carried out the hospital attack. Now it's clear Hamas did it despite the analysis of satellite evidence a lot of people continue to want to blame Israel.

caringcarer · 22/10/2023 14:41

Bookshipper · 22/10/2023 09:52

Israel have systemically made it impossible - illegal - for Palestinaians in Gaza to be self sufficient. They pour cement into water pipes, the bombed and destroyed the only electrical power plant I Gaza, and fisherman can only fish a very limited and shallow area off the coast.

I cant believe i have to say this, but Israel is not some benign benefactor for the Palestinians. Israel has got 2 million of them caged in a small area (Gaza) and they limit the food and supplies. Those Palestinians have no rights. They cannot leave Gaza or make their lives better. And now Israel are indiscriminately carpet bombing those people, while simultaneously keeping every crossing out of Gaza closed. Whole families are being slaughtered. Hospitals, schools, residential areas, mosques, a church. Its genocide.

Yet throughout Hamas has the Israeli hostages and continues to send rockets from Gaza to attack Israel. More aid money spent on food and less spent on rockets would be a good start.

caringcarer · 22/10/2023 14:38

CNN have now analysed satellites and lots of video footage from both Hamas and Israel and concluded it was most likely the result of a Hamas rocket breaking up in the air and part landing on the hospital carpark. Other American intelligence has also concluded the same. So it is most likely, no one can be 100 percent definitive, that Hamas attacked the hospital in Gaza.

25milesfromhome · 22/10/2023 14:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Literally no-one has done that on this thread. But as you’ve brought it up apropos of nothing;
Accusing Jews of “crying antisemitism” as a “tactic” to shut down debate about the oppression of Palestinians is in itself antisemitic, congratulations!

Teentaxidriver · 22/10/2023 14:21

Terrorist

Teentaxidriver · 22/10/2023 14:18

ah the BBC: that famous bastion of truth. If you rely on the Beeb and Channel 4 for your facts and truth, no wonder you Ketchup are so misguided. The BBC is a conduit for terrorise propaganda.

EasternStandard · 22/10/2023 13:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Who is this to?

You seem to be writing posts in response to something else

If you think Israel is illegitimate I am interested in what you are proposing in reality

Can you say what your preferred outcome is?

Generally posters say within established borders you are one of the few that seems to be saying otherwise

bellac11 · 22/10/2023 13:50

Its such a shame that posters have to compete over who is the most traumatised out of Israelis and Palestinians.

Unhelpful, hostile and serving no purpose at all

SomeCatFromJapan · 22/10/2023 13:47

@Mammillaria that's a very reasonable position.

Bookshipper · 22/10/2023 13:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
Mammillaria · 22/10/2023 13:44

I think it is possible to recognise Hamas as a terrorist organisation responsible for horrific atrocities and agree with Israel's need to defend themselves, whilst also being alert to potential war crimes.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 22/10/2023 13:32

Bookshipper · 22/10/2023 13:23

Even though we can't do anything to materially change the plight of the people in Gaza or the West Bank, we can still talk about it.

Once someone learns about the realities of the Palestinian people, they very seldom abandon their support for it, so every newly-opened pair of eyes stays open on this issue for a lifetime.

What is your preferred outcome?

Are you against Israel existing or is it more the borders you contest

SomeCatFromJapan · 22/10/2023 13:31

Once someone learns about the realities of the Palestinian people, they very seldom abandon their support for it, so every newly-opened pair of eyes stays open on this issue for a lifetime.

I've been supporting Palestine and empathising with its suffering since the '90s. My eyes were newly opened to the true nature of Hamas though two weeks ago. I had not previously acknowledged their role in the suffering in Gaza but I see it now.

Bookshipper · 22/10/2023 13:30

Have you seen the hundreds of thousands of people marching for a free Palestine across the world? The communities of Jewish people calling for a ceasefire in Washington and beyond?

The abuses of the Israeli government are so glaringly uncomplicated that they override all the propaganda and cognitive biases we are surrounded by in the west.

All we need is to really see it and wrap our minds around what we're seeing. The truth does the rest of the work.

Xenia · 22/10/2023 13:27

I am pro Israel. I am grateful to everyone on both sides for discussions on this thread. The only way to achieve peace is to hear other people's views and hopefully change them.

We must all keep talking including about the murderous Hamas terrorists, a banned organisation in the UK by the way. Israel is a democracy and beacon of freedom in the Middle East an area with some of the worst regimes for human rights on the planet from Iran to Saudi.

Bookshipper · 22/10/2023 13:25

Keep talking, keep sharing the videos coming out of Palestine.

There isnt anything an Israel apologist can say that will have more impact than raw video footage of an Israeli settler telling a Palestinian family that he stole their home because 'If I don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it.'

Bookshipper · 22/10/2023 13:23

Even though we can't do anything to materially change the plight of the people in Gaza or the West Bank, we can still talk about it.

Once someone learns about the realities of the Palestinian people, they very seldom abandon their support for it, so every newly-opened pair of eyes stays open on this issue for a lifetime.

EasternStandard · 22/10/2023 13:06

Bookshipper · 22/10/2023 13:01

@Gruntsandgroans agreed. Who bombs two churches and two mosques in two days in 'self-defense?'

@Bookshipper if Israel is in your view an illegitimate colonial settlement.

What do you want to happen?

Bookshipper · 22/10/2023 13:01

@Gruntsandgroans agreed. Who bombs two churches and two mosques in two days in 'self-defense?'

EasternStandard · 22/10/2023 12:38

Gruntsandgroans · 22/10/2023 12:35

Yup. You've made your stance clear.Your biggest concern is how awful it is for Israelis to live beside that open air prison of their own creation where they are killing 1 child every 15mins. We get it.

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And I get how my sorrow for families who suffered barbaric atrocities and still held hostage made you react.

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