Channel 4 News report into IDF evidence for Gaza hospital bombing

All the useful idiots propping up this corrupt regime that just says shit, because racism against Arabs is fine. Even genocide, so long as it's the right side.

If Rishi Sunak told me the sky was blue, I'd still look out a window to check.

I love how they don't explain anything, they just say "trust me bro, it wasn't our allies we're deeply committed to" despite all the other times they've been caught outright lying.

Oh hey, the anti-semitism joker card got played. I guess critical thought naturally has a hatin' on Jews, or something.

@Gruntsandgroans We all need to learn from each other 🙂

Thanks so much for your post. It was really helpful in understanding. I think because of the history of the country I live in we do tend to zone in more on the occupation side things and possibly give too little thought to the ethnicity side of things.

Hamas lied about Israel bombing the hospital and how many died.

What else have they lied about? What evidence is there that Israel destroyed the electric plant that they actually built themselves or poured concrete down water pipes? Where is the evidence of mass torture and rapes of Palestinian women.

I have no doubt innocent people have died in the bombings by Israel, despite the warnings to evacuate, mainly because Hamas use them as shields and actively want as many dead as possible to gain sympathy.

If Israel wanted to commit genocide against the Palestinian people, there would be a lot more that 4000 people dead by now.

I would ask if anybody would seriously be OK with a terrorist governed neighbouring country just a few kms away, who had publicly declared they wanted to wipe you off the map and kill everyone of you, having their own airport!

I’m actually cannot comprehend the hard of thinking people shouting about ‘open air prisons’ and Israel not providing free water, energy and communications to a country that elected a terrorist government that wanted to, and then actually did, tie children together (including an autistic little girl) with metal twine and burn them to death, film themselves spitting on and laughing at the naked dead body of a young woman they had brutalised so badly her vagina was bleeding, kill whole families in their beds.

Thank god Israel had blockaded them up to this point, no?

@Gruntsandgroans To explain it from my own personal experience - I have never practised the religion but an ethnically Jewish. As a child I experienced some pretty horrible antisemitism (and quite a bit of xenophobia too with a French mother which is by the by in this context) and quite a bit of casual antisemitism as an adult. It was directed at me simply for existing as someone with Jewish ethnicity, nothing to do with religion. It's my genetics. At its most extreme - Nazis didn't care if you were religious - all you needed was Jewish blood, whether through both parents, one parent or a grandparent.

I am not 'pro-Israel' in the way it's thrown around here as some kind of insulting accusation of supporting Netanyahu (I think he's f*cking demented FWIW), I've never been there and never considered it, but by god I will support Israel's right to exist. When you experience antisemitism throughout your life a lot of it is wrapped up in generational trauma too, so there's always this thought at the back of your head that however bad it gets 'at least I can escape to Israel'. Which I know, in the current context of events sounds mad because obviously it's not a safe place to be! Does that make sense?

And to answer your other question - yes, there is a huge amount of conflation, but it's done in quite a subtle, underhand way, e.g. expecting British Jews to answer for, or denounce Israel.

And I will also add, I have been absolutely beside myself about the bloodshed of both Israelis and Palestinians. Genuinely heartbroken. But I am also very (VERY) scared for what this means for British Jews and so my posting on MN reflects that I suppose. It doesn't mean I'm heartless or blind to the suffering in Gaza.

OK. Thanks.

Ah OK. Is that why people on mumsnet say Arabs too when talking about it rather than Palestinians? That's something I hadn't really seen prior to mumsnet either. It's seen as 2 ethnicities against each other rather than 2 territories like it is here?

@Gruntsandgroans i haven’t seen hundreds of thousands of people (mostly Muslim) on the streets of London protesting the murder and oppression of Uighur Muslims in China (which has been described as an attempted genocide), I haven’t seen them yelling “fuck the chinese” and Chinese people have not had to close their schools and places of worship for safety, so yes, this is very much about religion. That’s not to say Israel can’t be criticised, but if it’s the only place you’re criticising then you might want to consider you’re motivated at least as much by anti semitism as you are by humanitarian concerns.

Antisemites mostly don't care if you're religious or not. It's about ethnicity, not religion.

Is there actually that much conflation going on in the Uk between Israel and Jews? Where I live not a single person that I have spoken to about this, including lots of people at marches has even mentioned religion. Everything I read in my country is focused on Israel and Gaza/Palestinians. Nobody seems to care what religion people are. They care about people dying, they care about war crimes, they care a lot about oppression and occupation but what book someone chooses to follow just isn't an issue. I find it really jarring when I read on Mumsnet that people are obsessed with what religion everyone is, some people to the exclusion of everything else. Is that a reflection of real life in the UK or is it just a mumsnet thing? People here see this as a conflict about land, a conflict about occupation, probably because that's something we have lots of experience with. Is it framed more as a religious war in the UK?

These are genuine questions because like I said it's framed so differently here. I'm not on twitter or anything like that and don't read UK media so really the only UK voices I hear are on mumsnet.

Antisemitism and peace talks were cancelled

The media jumped for a story from a terrorist organisation

Rishi Sunak has announced that our security services have reviewed the evidence and concluded its most likely to have been a rocket or part of a rocket fired from within Gaza, ie: not Israel.

It’s a shame that the unquestioned repetition of lies from Hamas whipped up a wave of blood lust against Jewish people around the world, isn’t it?

Ah, I see @MNHQ posting antisemitic conspiracy theories- fine, have at it and unlikely to be deleted, post an anti conspiracy theorist joke on Mumsnet, absolutely not on. Right, got it.

People can write on the thread "please stop" but we don't have to stop supporting Israel, just as we let 100,000 mark in favour of Palestine (although they are not allowed to call for Jihad on London streets as that presumably is calling for war and death of jews so I hope they did not go that far)

Is it? Channel 4 did an investigation that showed it was likely Israel. In the OP?

More recent reporting from US, Canadian and French security services found it was unlikely to have been the IDF so I'm not sure what Ch4 were playing at there.

Their fight is for Palestinian liberation.

How do you think they invisage this liberation looking? Do you think it includes peaceful co-existence with Israel?

It’s a bit pointless speculating at this stage. There’s some evidence to suggest the Israelis are responsible so anti-Israelis will consider that proof, there’s some evidence to suggest that it was Hamas to pro-Israelis will consider that proof.

I think it will be a while before there can be an actual investigation and we can claim to know either way.

Really? Not according to human rights organizations. There are 6000 Palestinian 'hostages' in Israel, held in administrative detention with no access to legal representation, or to even have the right to know what 'crime' they have committed. Approx 1500 are children. There have been many recorded allegations of the IDF and security forces using rape, sexual abuse and torture as punishment tactics and to also illicit a 'confession'.

You do realize that Black and brown people are against Israeli policy too and are capable of seeing human rights violations in front of their eyes? Look a bit harder on social media. I just saw an Israeli comedian dressed up as a Palestinian woman holding a baby and mocking her pain.

This.

It has done it before, it is doing it now and it will do it again in future. They have no regard for Palestinian lives regardless of age, sex, religion.

For pps trying to justify the unjustifiable, please just stop. There are so many other mouthpieces working around the clock throwing dust on people's eyes.

Disgusted by those seeking to justify the genocide. All people need to do to know the real truth is go beyond the mass media and try to scratch the surface and things will become clear.

No one talks about the real problem that is Zionism

Are you quite sure about that? @Sofita90

The problem is this war did not start today and the situation is unfair toeart Palestinians for years. No one talks about the real problem that is Zionism . See the video talking about the situation in west bank. What Hamas did is terrible and have no justification same what Israel does today and how they have handled the situation for years. What this attack to Gaza will resolve ? Except if they kill all Palestinians this situation will create potentially a new generation of fighters. Israel does not care for the hostages is clear as much as Hamas doesn't care for the Palestinian people. By the way to mention here Palestinians are not only Muslim . Israel bombed the greek orthodox church the oldest church is Gaza while there were 400 Christian Palestinians seeking shelter.

The BBC is respected all over the world for its international news and follows stringent journalistic guidelines. What news do you trust? Talk TV? GB news? I've news for you, they are definitely propagandists with slovenly journalism who would not get a look in at respected news outlets.