Channel 4 News report into IDF evidence for Gaza hospital bombing

Hamas have not been entirely non-platformed. Times Radio did an interview with a spokesman the other day here:

And the Saudis did one here:

Hamas official says group ‘well aware’ of consequences of attack on Israel, Palestinian liberation comes with ‘sacrifices’ (arabnews.com)

I think it's fair to say that Hamas come out very badly from both interviews.

They aren't just 'events' in Gaza though. We need to call it what it is. It is Israel killing 1000s of women and children, by their own words they are looking for damage over accuracy. Israel are with holding aid purposefully. Israel are purposefully withholding fuel, water and food. These aren't just 'events', they are acts of terror and they are crimes against humanity. There is nothing complicated about it. These laws that Israel are purposefully breaking are there for a reason. They are there to protect the most vulnerable. We must hold Israel to the same standards we hold other countries and stop excusing state sanctioned terrorism and the ongoing murder of 1000s women of children.

Well even from the first reading of the first couple of paragraphs 'we do accept Israel as a state, we dont accept Israel as a state, we dont have an issue with Jews, we do have an issue with Jews, we do recognise the 1967 borders, we dont recognise the 1967 borders.........

PP will say

That's not a valid source - Al Jazheera is owned by Qatar so is biassed

The annihilation of Israel was in their first manifesto ?1987 - it's been re-drafted since then about 10 years ago

I’m sure pp would do more than ‘bleat’ given reality

Israel are always bleating on about how everyone wants to kill them

I used to think that too. Then I saw footage from the terrorist attacks and realised it wasn't "bleating".

@WildBactrian here is the Hamas charter:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter

@bellac11 Hamas offered to return 2 hostages yesterday. Israel denied them and carried on carpet bombing Gaza. It's estimated that Israel have killed 22 of their hostages while bombing. To me ira clear that Hamas can be negotiated with.

My post was in reply to @SomeCatFromJapan

Hamas have stated this goal where?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/8/what-is-the-group-hamas-a-simple-guide-tothe-palestinian-group

This is the problem with not allowing us to hear their spokespeople. We hear Netanyatu, we hear Biden, we hear UN etc. but we only hear about Hamas. So its easy for people to believe they want to destroy all of Israel, they kill their own people, they are terrorists, extremists, etc. People believe those with whom they feel comfortable, i.e. who look like them and sound like them. Therefore analogies with South Africa, apartheid and the ANC are entirely appropriate in this instance.

It's a really difficult situation. The events in Gaza are heartbreaking. I genuinely don't know how Israel is meant to deal with a terrorist organisation intent on wiping it out and heavily embedded in a densely populated area. I can't see any easy answers.

Well Israels plan seems to be to commit war crimes, crimes against humanity and acts of terror. I think the question we should be asking at this point is what the world does with a country like that? Western democratic countries shouldn't be supporting state sanctioned terrorism.

I do think it depends how sane the end goal of the organisation is.
So say for instance the ANC, end goal was equal rights for all South Africans. Any sane, fair person would find that entirely reasonable.
Hamas the goal is the complete destruction of Israel. What does anyone do with that?

Hamas are â murderous, terrorist organisation. Their hatred of Jews is their driving force. They are not freedom fighters. They don't seem to care about their own people.

I saw the woman with bloodstained trousers being bundled into a car but didn't see the other footage you speak of.

That footage has haunted me.

I don't know why we are being lied to and deceived by our media. I'm utterly confused by the whole situation. It's civilians that are collateral damage once again. It's natural to feel such despair for the Palestinians and their impoverished lives but Israeli citizens have the right to live in peace without threat or attack. I don't understand why there's such support for Israel from the West but no support for Palestine. Why do our leaders seem to be turning a blind eye to the situation in Gaza?

This is the problem of viewing various groups as 'equal' to each other as well, why are Hamas being given air time, they're a terrorist group

But then as I write this, I remember it also goes back to the years that the IRA had voice overs so that their actual words couldnt be spoken by them specifically and yet along came the Good Friday Agreement. You might say though that the IRA were terrorists we could negotiate with whereas Hamas are not.

Ch4 did platform Hamas, they had Osama Hamdan on after the terrorist attacks.

I think its unlikely that the likes of me are ever going to be able to decipher and understand what is the truth and what isnt

The problem with various countries, including the UK giving 'proof' is that we are all allies of each other and allies of Israel, so I cant imagine that France or Canada (as cited above) are ever going to say that there is a problem with the evidence because we're all allies together.

Its the WMD issue again, which I whole heartedly believed at the time.

Did nobody else see the videos posted to social media taken by hamas? The one of the crying girl with blood stained trousers being forced into a car, the one of the naked girl tied face down to a truck, the woman and her toddler and baby being kidnapped. People running in the desert from the music festival. Before all the politicking and newspapers began hamas was posting this on Instagram and people were sharing it saying what the fuck? And now suddenly it’s all a conspiracy by the idf? C4 platforms them in a way never given to isis or daesh or Al Qaida, even though they literally take the billions a year given to Palestine in aid and use it to attack Israel and rather than build infrastructure that could actually help Palestinians. But yeah evidence of these attacks are idf propaganda and I’m sure hamas sat around there twiddling their thumbs.

IIRC Bin Laden's videos from his cave in Tora Bora etc featured in broadcasts on MSM of all stripes?

Free Palestine only means free palestine. It's not antisemitic or anti Jewish. It means freedom to people living under occupation, in what is basically a concentration camp. It means equal rights for everyone.

As Mandela once said, 'we know too well that freedom is incomplete without the freedom of Palestinians'.

Wondered how long before we'd get to "Jews control the media."

There are exaggerations, propaganda and bare faced lies from both sides in this (and every) conflict.
It is therefore not unreasonable to require forensic evidence of claims made by either side before believing anything reported from the heat of the conflict.

They're not platforming Hamas. They're taking a bombed hospitality Gaza and asking questions about the Israeli narrative that 'Hamas did it'. A narrative that was flimsy to begin with, and now looks to be false. The channel 4 video on it is very good. Someone upthread also posted screenshots detailing the 'experts' on BBC verify who verified Israels version of events, and how those experts are biased towards Israeli propaganda.

Again this is all widely available and discussed.