What does 'ceasing responsibility for life' mean?

It may be that Israel allows Egypt the option to deliver power and water. Egypt will probably say no, and the people who live in Gaza will go without, permanently

Mmmmm. And you’re still surprised at the “Israel has a right to defends itself BUT..” line?

What purpose is this going to serve? Is it a plan to hobble Hamas?

In fact, these posts are so brazenly callous that I have to wonder if they’re actually there to inspire and promote anti-Zionism. I know Jewish people who would never agree with them. So I won’t engage any further.

What a charming government and adherents we are told we are supporting.

I don't know. I don't think anyone in Israel (or anywhere else) knows what kind of civil administration will exist in future.

There are two countries that border Gaza, and Israel is just one of them. Egypt has equally been willing to blockade the territory in agreement with Israel because Egypt doesn't want to deal with Hamas either.

It may be that Israel allows Egypt the option to deliver power and water. Egypt will probably say no, and the people who live in Gaza will go without, permanently.

Lucky them. Meanwhile, in real time it’s being reported that

1: there are tens of thousands of people in Gaza buried under rubble. The stench of rotting bodies is becoming unbearable, as are the amount of flies now all over the city.
2: 90% of flushing toilets don’t work so people are queuing 4-5 hours to go to the loo or having to go where they can. Toilet paper and feminine hygiene products are scare.

im ashamed to live in a world where any human thinks this is acceptable, but congrats on Israel’s successful strategy @mushti.

What I understand the answer to the question in the title of the thread is that going forward, when the war with Hamas is finished, the residents of Gaza will have to get their electricity and diesel fuel from somewhere else - it will no longer be supplied by Israel. Also, presumably, water

Do you have any sense of how that would work re the blockade? You said Fuel was smuggled in originally would that have to resume or would an above board arrangement from another supplier (assuming one could be found) be allowed?

Somewhat relevant to the title of this thread is the fact that throughout the blockade and up until this month, Israel still provided electricity (from the IEC) and diesel fuel for Gaza's power station.

What I understand the answer to the question in the title of the thread is that going forward, when the war with Hamas is finished, the residents of Gaza will have to get their electricity and diesel fuel from somewhere else - it will no longer be supplied by Israel. Also, presumably, water.

“A 2004 opinion of the International Court of Justice included the Gaza Strip as part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Israel voted for a disengagement plan in 2005. Both Israel and Egypt also imposed a temporary land, air, and sea blockade from 2005 to 2006.

A permanent Gaza Strip blockade was imposed by Israel and Egypt beginning in 2007 following the completion of the Israeli disengagement plan and when Hamas took control of the area during the Battle of Gaza and replaced the Palestinian nationalist and social democratic political party Fatah and other Palestinian Authority officials with its members.”
https://www.profolus.com/topics/gaza-strip-blockade-explained/

Abbas accepted it verbally but when he asked to be sent the written documents, Olmert tried to pressure him into signing a carte Blanche- an agreement he’d not even gotten a copy of. So Abbas said sorry, I can’t sign a peace agreement that I haven’t even got a copy of.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-admits-he-rejected-2008-peace-offer-from-olmert/

The story of the blockade since 2007 and the supply of services to Gaza is complicated. I know it would suit the narrative if it were simply "Israel bad, Palestinians good" but that's now how things go.

Again the reverse is also true - it’s not Israel good, Palestine bad.
The blockade itself is probably necessary but cutting of supplies to the people locked in is pretty grim.

After the blockade of 2007, diesel fuel was smuggled from Egypt, then in 2013 Egypt shut down the smuggling tunnels. The fuel was then supplied from Qatar and Turkey.

In 2017 power lines from Egypt were shutdown. At that time the only electricity to Gaza was provided from the Israel Electric Corporation. Then at some unspecified time later Israel allowed fuel to be delivered again

Why did the fuel have to be smuggled in?

Doesn’t sound like Israel had to supply fuel then, they shut down the supplies from the other countries you mentioned?

Blockade started in 2005 in conjunction with the military withdrawal.

Well what do you expect them to say? “Israel has the right to defend itself SO bomb away and call the civilian casualties collateral damage?”

To the extent that the bombs are dropped on legitimate Hamas targets, that would make sense, yes.

I genuinely am not sure what you’re getting at here.

I'm not grumbling about other people being critical. I am pointing out that it's not constructive. People being critical of Israel gives those people an outlet for their anger in a harmless way. But it doesn't diminish loss of life in Gaza. If that's the real goal, maybe there are other things. Those other things should take into account the reality of the arms imbalance.

I think it's helpful that the US moved two carrier battle groups to the region. An example of how having bigger guns than the other side may be able to preserve the peace.

50% of electricity used in Gaza comes (or came) from a diesel-fired power station fed by fuel from refineries in Haifa. The other 50% was fed from the Israeli national grid and from Egypt. The Palestinian Authority paid the bills.

After the blockade of 2007, diesel fuel was smuggled from Egypt, then in 2013 Egypt shut down the smuggling tunnels. The fuel was then supplied from Qatar and Turkey.

In 2017 power lines from Egypt were shutdown. At that time the only electricity to Gaza was provided from the Israel Electric Corporation. Then at some unspecified time later Israel allowed fuel to be delivered again.

You can read about the Electricity shenanigans between Israel, Hamas, the PA and Egypt here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_electricity_crisis

The water supply story is likely very similar.

The story of the blockade since 2007 and the supply of services to Gaza is complicated. I know it would suit the narrative if it were simply "Israel bad, Palestinians good" but that's now how things go.

Secondly, "independent" onlookers never really seem to be independent. There is always - always - a "but", in the sense of "Israel has the right to defend itself BUT".

Well what do you expect them to say? “Israel has the right to defend itself SO bomb away and call the civilian casualties collateral damage?”

I mean..on one had you’re saying Israel has the big guns, Gaza doesn’t stand a chance. Tough.
But on the other hand you’re grumbling that other people are critical. Do you have the courage of your convictions or not?

And as things stand the IDF has bigger guns than the Palestinians. If independent onlookers have a genuine goal to reduce the suffering of the Palestinians living in Gaza that's probably a good starting point for deciding what to do or say

I genuinely am not sure what you’re getting at here.

If Hezbollah gets involved the IDF’s guns won’t be enough. So the IDF is not just callous and sadistic but also deluded. Then the rest of us will have to put ourselves at risk bailing them out. Bailing out the army that is currently slaughtering thousands of innocent children. What a mess.

I'm not at all surprised, for at least two reasons. Firstly independent onlookers don't have skin in this. "So would I if it were your tooth", as they say.

Secondly, "independent" onlookers never really seem to be independent. There is always - always - a "but", in the sense of "Israel has the right to defend itself BUT".

Ultimately the role of the IDF is to defend the citizens of Israel. And as things stand the IDF has bigger guns than the Palestinians. If independent onlookers have a genuine goal to reduce the suffering of the Palestinians living in Gaza that's probably a good starting point for deciding what to do or say.

Even though many people felt Israel treated Gaza badly in the past, Israel did provide fuel, electricity and water.

It had to because of the blockade? I’m sure it wouldn’t have bothered otherwise. As you say a lot of Israelis are probably desensitised to the Palestinians predicament - although possibly not all? I read that some don’t agree with their right wing government and there have even been protest marches in the past.
It seems likely the elevation of Hamas over the PLO was a reaction to the failure of the Oslo Accords? That seemed like the closest they ever came to an agreement and when that fell flat things must of seemed bleak.

Even including Israelis whose families were directly affected by the criminal actions of October 7. What gives Netanyahu the right to be as indifferent to his own people as he is to the Gazan children?

You can’t be surprised though that most independent onlookers are not so indifferent. Nor, I hear, are many Israelis.

I believe the attitude of the IDF is that while Palestinian civilians don't deserve to be punished, Israel is now indifferent to their suffering, for as long as the legitimate goal of destroying Hamas is pursued.

Even though many people felt Israel treated Gaza badly in the past, Israel did provide fuel, electricity and water. Providing those things at the present time will help the enemy, so they have been withdrawn. Israel no longer sees the suffering that will inevitably bring to the innocent residents of Gaza as something it should worry about.

That is very much a predictable consequence of the events of October 7, and therefore one for which Hamas is responsible.

But none of the Gazans have fairly voted for Hamas. No elections since 2006. 50% of Gazans weren’t even alive then. So they don’t deserve to be punished for Hamas

True, Hamas were voted in but they then took control of Gaza by force so I’m not sure they could be described as leaders as such.

I don't think anyone demands respect for any action "because" it's religion. Knowledge is good however, and knowledge of how the "other side" thinks is helpful.

We all judge actions on our own moral scales, which are often different from those of others. Hamas feels justified in killing babies and raping teenage girls at a music festival because their victims are not civilians but "occupiers". We can note that this is what they think without agreeing to that point of view. That's important because it informs us how they are likely to behave in the future.

The official IDF code of ethics is described here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purity_of_arms

But none of the Gazans have fairly voted for Hamas. No elections since 2006. 50% of Gazans weren’t even alive then. So they don’t deserve to be punished for Hamas.

You answered it already. If anyone disagrees with your answer I'm sure they'll say so

Yeah, I didn’t mean it though. I was just fed up with your broken record act. Look at my post history and you’ll see I don’t think Hamas are a force for good.
The PLO I’m not sure, I was very young in the 90s so can’t remember, but they did at least give peace talks a go which is more than Hamas will ever do.