What does 'ceasing responsibility for life' mean?

@Namechangey23 I think a lot of people weren’t aware before all of this about how Israel were treating Palestinians. I was so didnt have a terribly high opinion of the Israeli Government anyway. But I do think now a lot of the world have had their eyes opened, Israel’s reputation will be severely damaged.

Anyone else feel like Israel are getting away with literal murder and manslaughter of women, children and even premature babies because various governments are too frightened of being accused as 'antisemitic' to condemn it? Granted Hamas are evil terrorists and 'started it' and have taken hostages but if any of those hostages are still alive they are likely to be killed by Israel's bombardment now?! It shouldn't be tit for tat. One person's life is not worth more than another's?! What I am seeing on the news has vastly changed my perception of Israel for the worst. I always had a great sympathy due to the holocaust but seems they are undertaking their very own genocide..it's really very shocking this is being allowed to happen indeed. Really this is not the way to get rid of Hamas, there is going to be a lot of angry bereaved people after this with nothing to lose, that's one way to incite terrorism surely. I can't bear to see innocent children die and families torn apart on either side.

Yep. There have been plenty of threads about Ukraine. Russia hasn’t won any awards for good conduct Chechnya, Georgia, Syria etc etc etc.

They do say that. I don't know whether you object or not. I should add - it doesn't really matter to me either way

Well it makes no difference to you I know. I was just trying to make a point. And I will admit I did think you would expect me to object.
Oh well 🤷‍♀️Indifference all round.

Have I not? Do you know my name changes over the years? How?

As other posts have explained to you, this thread is about the conflict in the Middle East. I would not derail it by discussing other conflicts.

If you an Israeli I can understand why you may feel that way but it actually is an objectionable point of view.

Objectionable is subjective. The Israeli point of view is just as valid as yours. It's actually more important than yours, since Israel is a party to the conflict.

If a Hamas supporter said to me, “yeah I know some of the people killed were kids but frankly who the hell cares?” Would you not expect me to object?

They do say that. I don't know whether you object or not. I should add - it doesn't really matter to me either way.

I'm fairly sure that when you criticize the UK government, you don't draw a moral equivalence between Rishi Sunak on the one hand, and people who rape teenage girls before shooting them dead, and cut the heads of babies, on the other.

Even when there is evidence (and there is plenty) of inhumane treatment of civilians by the British Army.

I'm equally sure you feel you're just as concerned with civilian deaths in Ukraine, and in other armed conflicts around the world.

But you're not contributing to page 20 of a thread on those.

There's plenty of criticism of other countries, but why does Israel come in for so much contempt?

I'm not anti-semitic, criticising a government is a viable opinion, I have and still do criticise the UK government.

I disagree that how the Israeli government is treating the people of Palestine is humane, not just very recently but over the span of many years. It isn't like there is no evidence of mistreatment by IDF soldiers. You have your opinion, I have mine. My concerns are with civilians, on whichever side of threborder they happen to reside.

Will a change of administration make you alter your moral equivalencing? My suspicion is that it's not actually the choice of Government or the person who leads it that you actualy object to.

Thing is you can’t say “who cares?” in response to a potential humanitarian crisis then try and imply people are just being difficult when they object.

If you an Israeli I can understand why you may feel that way but it actually is an objectionable point of view.

If a Hamas supporter said to me, “yeah I know some of the people killed were kids but frankly who the hell cares?” Would you not expect me to object?

Not truez. It’s been different coalitions over the years. And is now a national unity government

I am aware, no administration of which I am aware have advocated for better treatment of Palestinians.

Stop trying to make it about religion. It might be the only comeback you have and I understand, as it is hard to justify what is happening. Believe what you like, but please keep your horrible accusations to yourself.

This is vile. The Israeli government are not the same as a terrorist group no matter how anti semitic you are.

the present Israeli government is a national unity government to fight a war that was started by a violent terrorist organisation that is based on its borders. Even the previous government (of which I was no fan) doesn’t compare to Hamas. If you think that you need to grow up.

The Israeli government changes every couple of years.

Nah iIs been Likud pretty much constantly since 2009.

The Israeli government changes every couple of years.

Will a change of administration make you alter your moral equivalencing? My suspicion is that it's not actually the choice of Government or the person who leads it that you actualy object to.

From the context it looks like they want to no longer be responsible for providing Gaza with water and electricity etc (they do this for free). Understandable really considering the (1) the murder and kidnapping of 1600 Israeli civilians and (2) that repeated assistance has been given to enable Gaza to provide it’s own water and electricity but they have polluted the aquifer and dug up water pipes to make rockets (and made a film about it too).

Where would they go though? Its a large number of people given that if Gaza is rendered literally inhabitable they will all have to leave.

From an Israeli perspective, they can stay or go, who cares?

But without Israeli water, electricity and fuel, they'll have to find those things from somewhere else.

Yep. Again, who cares? Hopefully they have an answer as carefully prepared as the attacks of October 7 were.

If Israel was responsible for Gaza (or the West Bank for that matter) from 1967 then that was their own choice. I mean they didn’t have it handed to them under protest did they?

You can make that argument (although I'm not sure it was exactly a free choice) - but if it was Israel's choice, its one it can exercise now.

I think my first sentence saying "the Israeli government and Hamas are as bad as each other" is very clear. If you can't see that, I'm not sure what to suggest.

Nice reach, though. I didn't mention Jews, as I've said in many posts, I don't judge on religion and not all of the IDF are even Jewish. I'm afraid that doesn't work on me, I care not a jot which religion people choose to follow.

Who:

Netanyahu?

The Israeli Government?

The IDF?

The State of Israel?

The Jews who don't share your opinions?

Or all Jews?

Who exactly do you see as equally bad as Hamas? You're not very clear in your post

They said the Israeli Government. They literally said that in their post.

They can leave. They just can't leave into Israel. Or any other Arab country that would take refugees. Egypt could allow them to leave into Egypt, but won't. Or, they can stay.

Where would they go though? Its a large number of people given that if Gaza is rendered literally inhabitable they will all have to leave.

But without Israeli water, electricity and fuel, they'll have to find those things from somewhere else.

Well they won’t be able to pull it out of the sky will they? Given a post-Hamas Gaza is (unfortunately) unlikely to be the post - war scenario if they (Hamas) do manage it this will just make the Palestinians more dependent on them surely?

I don't think your characterization as spite is accurate. Israel has been responsible for Gaza since 1967. I think after October 7 it has finally had enough

If Israel was responsible for Gaza (or the West Bank for that matter) from 1967 then that was their own choice. I mean they didn’t have it handed to them under protest did they?

Who:

Netanyahu?

The Israeli Government?

The IDF?

The State of Israel?

The Jews who don't share your opinions?

Or all Jews?

Who exactly do you see as equally bad as Hamas? You're not very clear in your post.

The Israeli government and Hamas are as bad as each other, in my eyes. Netanyahu can hide behind the fact he's part of a 'legitimate government'. That's why so many see Hamas' attack as bad, and the siege as justified, when both are horrifying. The IDF are no better than Hamas in a lot of their actions, both deserve condemnation.

They can leave. They just can't leave into Israel. Or any other Arab country that would take refugees. Egypt could allow them to leave into Egypt, but won't. Or, they can stay. But without Israeli water, electricity and fuel, they'll have to find those things from somewhere else.

I don't think your characterization as spite is accurate. Israel has been responsible for Gaza since 1967. I think after October 7 it has finally had enough.

Purpose: I think the purpose is to avoid Israel having to give the necessities of life to people who allow an organization to flourish in their midst that act as Hamas did on October 7. “Let someone else provide for them. We’re done.”

I’m not being funny but if the Palestinians (civilians I mean) are locked into an environment they can’t leave with no basics like water or power then that’s every bit as bad as what Hamas did. Particularly if Israel can’t give a better reason for it than spite.

It's really interesting that you say that. It's rather like you're thinking that Jews are only ok as long as they're meek and mild. That there's the right kind of Jew, and the wrong kind. One kind deserves a state, and the other kind doesn't.

I think it’s envisaged in a post-Hamas world. I don’t have any more information on how that will be enforced than you do.

Purpose: I think the purpose is to avoid Israel having to give the necessities of life to people who allow an organization to flourish in their midst that act as Hamas did on October 7. “Let someone else provide for them. We’re done.”