To think that water occupation is oppressive?

Interesting. So they managed to acquire all their weapons - the ak47s they used to massacre innocent civilians, the rpgs they used to blow up houses, the endless missiles they are firing at israel from thin air.
Ingenious.

It has a border with Egypt. What's hard to understand about that? Why doesn't Egypt open the rafah crossing to whoever wants to leave?

I used to be against the blockade but can see now that it was needed. Imagine the weapons they would have if there wasn't one! They could have killed even more.
Actually prior to the massacre, because gaza had been quiet, Israel was increasing work permits, allowing exports through israeli ports. But the illusion that hamas has any desire to improve the wellbeing of gazans was well and truly burst 2 weeks ago

It's occupied as Israel has placed a blockade by land air and sea
Surely you understand that?

But there is not one (non kidnapped) israeli in gaza. And gaza has a border with Egypt.
How, then, is it occupied?
Basically calling it occupied was to make sure israel kept supplying it with goods, water and electricity. Thats over. They'll need to look to Egypt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre
Ariel Sharon led the IDF troops that did this one in 1953.
69 villagers, two thirds women and children. In retaliation for the murder of a woman and child- unsolved but blamed on local Palestinians.
“Original documents of the time showed that Sharon personally ordered his troops to achieve "maximal killing and damage to property", and post-operational reports speak of breaking into houses and clearing them with grenades and shooting”

After the massacre was condemned, Sharon stated he “thought the houses were empty”

Ariel Sharon, Prime Minister of Israel from 2001-2006

I have read so many of these posts back and forths and it just feels like it is pointless debating with these types of posters. They are just bombarded by independent research and facts but the person just refuses to acknowledge it. You can’t convince them but I guess it helps the undecideds

This post is eye opening, and extremely sad
Thank you for sharing

They can’t import anything. Everything flows through Israel. That is what a blockade is.

Makes complete sense. Iraq had a border with Iran, but the US occupied Iraq for years. Ukraine has a border with six countries other than Russia- but yes Russia is currently occupying great swathes of Ukraine.

Every occupied territory or country is going to have borders. You don’t have to be completely surrounded by the occupier to be occupied.

Exactly. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, implementing a full blockade by land, air and sea. Controlling all movement of people, goods- including food, medical supplies, construction materials and fuel for all vehicles, the power plant, back up electric generators at hospitals and the desalination water plants and sewage system, also all agricultural supplies (seeds, fertiliser, tools), these were deliberately kept below subsistence levels so Gaza could never be self sufficient and Israel then controlled the top ups needed for life of water and electricity. Jobs were limited to a quota of 10,000 work permits for a population of over 2 million, leaving most of the population reliant on humanitarian aid to live- aid that had to go through Israel and the spending of which was supervised by Israel. Oh and they built a massive wall around the entire strip with a “buffer zone” that they can shoot to kill anyone who goes in it towards the wall.

Hamas came to power in 2007- two years later- and only in Gaza. They are not in the West Bank.

So the idea that Israel did all this because of Hamas is backwards. Israel created an oppressive “open air prison” which then caused some Palestinians trapped inside to be radicalised.

Let’s not be shy about what you said
”What would you, as a human being being, parent, citizen etc have wanted if it was your neighbouring villages subjected to that attack? Like literally if the town down the road from you had had hundreds of people slaughtered in their beds and others kidnapped and raped and paraded naked through the streets,..”

Take your pick, there are 400 of them to start…have been many more since these first ones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1947%E2%80%931949_Palestine_war

I’ve posted the start of a long table, note many of these villages were massacred.

Repeal their Military Order from 1967 that gives them absolute control over all water in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

Hamas don’t have “sophisticated” weaponry!

“Homemade rockets. Modified AK-47s. Decades-old Soviet machine guns. Cheap, second-hand, and purloined weapons comprised Hamas’ deadly makeshift arsenal”
”CNN analyzed dozens of photos and videos of Hamas militants during the surprise assault to identify the weapons used to kill at least 1,200 people in Israel. Many of the weapons appeared to be altered Russian or Chinese firearms, presumedly left behind on the battlefield in decades past that eventually made their way into the hands of Hamas terrorists, experts say.”
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/13/middleeast/hamas-weapons-invs

@Meshigenus You don’t understand how a country with a foreign border can be occupied?

In any event, the Egyptians have repeatedly said Israel is stopping humanitarian aid getting in through that border.

Interesting that they can import sophisticated weaponry but they can't import medicine.
I would suggest that Gazans question their government's priorities because it sure isn't their health and well being

Gaza has a border with Egypt so how can it be occupied? Makes no sense.

All humanitarian aid and supplies of medicine go through Israel and if not approved by Israel do not reach the medical facilities in Gaza. Gazan doctors have long reported how they have to operate with reduced supplies and lower level of equipment than a usual hospital. In the West Bank, many women are denied access to hospital by being turned away at check points and ending up going into labour and losing infants by being forced to birth unassisted at home.

They did build desalination plants…then Israel limited and finally shut off their supply of fuel to run them. Israel also limited the number of plants they could build, the number of repairs they could do by controlling all building permits and construction supplies.

How? When Gaza was under a strict blockade by Israel the entire time? Israel did not withdraw so much as encircle Gaza with a land, sea and air blockade and then controlled and controls all water, electricity, food, goods, medicine, and the movement of people to/from Gaza.

The difference here is that Israel is a democratically elected government, Hamas are terrorists. I expect better from a democratically elected government.

At the moment the Netanyahu administration is committing genocide and playing Russian roulette with Israeli safety. He is not fit to hold office.

Israelis have been arrested for criticising their government too. As have Russians and however other many countries around the world.

Yeah and that’s why Arab Israeli’s have been getting arrested this week for criticising the government for the treatment of Gaza.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-police-crack-down-arab-citizens-expressing-solidarity-with-gaza-2023-10-20/

Maybe you are just now 'finally' questioning this but it is nothing new for very many of us who have been campaigning about this for decades. Recent events though have forced me to afford a bit more complexity and nuance to the situation and to question what I would want were I on the Israeli side of the border.

A very good point. But I guess what we're seeing on both sides of this is that 'out of your mind' state leads you to elect governments who don't have that kind of balanced big picture approach.