30s TTC Inc: Rolling out BESH practice across our flagship monthly diffment projects - Blue Sky thinking for a paradigm shift vis-a-vis droids and wooden spoons.

I think I reached the conclusion that I would regret not having a child much more than I would regret having one. Perhaps a bit reductio ad absurdum, but got me to the first stage of thinking about TTC.

Dammit, I was going to watch that.

I agree with Occy - I think feminism ideally should have given women the choice about whether they want to be a SAHM or a working mum, and not have to face a load of cat's-arse-mouth, judgey-pant types, making decisions about what sort of person or parent you are. Why should you go back to work if you don't need to, or if it's not right? Why should you stay at home and feel stifled and swamped, if you and your family will be better off if you work?

this fred used to home to such debates quite often, back in the days where VAG and co were still around...

I hope that feminism's given us the ability to make choices about what we do (as opposed to being shoehorned into staying at home bringing up kids) rather than meaning we all feel we have to work no matter what. One of my friends has quit work now she's got a little one, and I admire her for saying that she (for now at least, I don't know her long term plans) wants to be at home with the baby rather than chasing her fairly high powered career.

I suspect that whatever choices any of us make there'll be someone who'll judge us for it, and we really can't win. Which brings it back to making the best choices you can for your own situation at the time.

shux

aries hands off mah woman...

cunty I remember talking to mr gin about just that after moo was born. If you have a really happy life before the baby, it can actually feel like the opposite of the 'best thing ever' when you have a small shouty handgrenade chucked in the middle of it....

Cunty - I haven't had a huge amount to do with you yet. But for the record, I think you're ace!

Oc you will find support. It is just that a lot of women seem to think expressing any unhappiness=being a bad mother, and they are scared of being judged.

Or maybe I was just too honest about the whole thing.

The other thing though, is that the really hard bits fade away to nothing after you get through them , whereas the good bits keep shinin' on. Which means people sometimes forget that they ever had doubts/really struggled/considered running away...

I hear you Occy. It's a very valid thing to ask. This has only just happened to me today! I look at myself every month and when the droid arrives and I'm disappointed, that must mean I want it, doesn't it? I wouldn't mind about jogging on for quite a few months in a relaxed way (well I don't think I would anyway), but my age is starting to prey upon my mind. Someone said on the OTHER ttc in your 30s thread (hisssssss) about fertility at 35/36 etc etc etc. Maybe it's a purely biological panic, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm sorry - I'm contradicting myself at every, single turn.

I reckon this is a Legitimate Thread Topic for people of our age and intellect and life experience so it's not really mememe. If we can't be honest with each other how can we ever hope to unravel our feelings in a safe, non-judgey environment?

Interesting about your mum - and interesting to even CONSIDER that it might not be the best/most rewarding/important thing you ever do (despite society frowning on that attitude I'm sure). I'm sure women are often brainwashed into thinking that it has to be the most rewarding thing you ever do. Would they put that onus on men do you think?

it doesn't always, at every moment, feel like the best thing ever. Sometimes being a parent is shit.

But the love thing is pretty fucking amazing.

Aries this may sound really stupid so feel free to ignore, but is there any way that the uncertainty can take some of the pressure off ttc? As in you've said you'd like kids, but if it doesn't happen it's not the end of the world and life would still be good, so can the 2WOOFLing and stressing about whether it's ever going to happen be set aside for a more laissez faire "if it happens it happens" type approach? (Not suggesting you're particularly stressy).

I suspect that in reality being that laid back about it is more difficult than it sounds, and it certainly doesn't answer the question about summer babies and coping, but I think Gin's covered that better than I ever could.

The conspiracy of motherhood Gin talks about scares me a bit: if and when I get that far I fully expect to struggle with a tiny baby, and being surrounded by people who either take to it like a duck to water or won't admit they don't sounds nightmareish. It's good to know that not everyone finds the whole thing wonderful all the time.

Thanks Ginsters. And your little charmer makes me want a little boy even more! He's beautiful.

And thanks for being so honest everyone. You hear so much of "Oh it's the best thing you'll ever do" etc. It makes you wonder whether it could possibly be the same for everyone. I know for a fact that my mum, too late, found it wasn't the best thing she would ever do and that fills me with menkul and angst as well.

I'll stop with the memememe now.

I'm hearing you all the way down the track airy, loud and clear.

Having explained all the above to a chum, I got accused of over-thinking it today - like it's something you shouldn't give due consideration to! But perhaps there's a grain of truth in it - perhaps sometimes you just need to bite the bullet and see where life takes you. There is a danger of never taking risks in life in case you're not cut out for it, but you sound like you could really embrace the whole thing with a positive outlook. I can't get past the sheer weight of responsibility and lack of autonomy and that's what's doing me in. Need to see it how you see it perhaps.

oh and....

hope that helps luvver

Hello Fred. Hello beshies. Hello cunty. cunt my lovely, that is more normal than you think (well I think it is anyway.) It is just another one of those things that in the 'conspiracy of mums' is generally Not Talked About. Same as when I admitted to not having an instantly perfect adaption to parenthood... blokes, once realising they weren't gonna be judged, admitted having felt similar at the start about 80% of the time. However I think I've still only met... maybe 2 women apart from me who did anything other than look on in shock.

I felt like a fucking monster. And it is fear of people seeing you as a monster that keeps wimminz from fessing up to these 'imperfect' thoughts.

I'm not a monster, and I love my kid to pieces. That doesn't mean I've never had any doubts or wondered if I was making/had made a mistake. Luckily I was allowed to keep him cos these days he is The Best Thing.

(fuck that was long winded)

aries even if you did time the baby for sometime in the 'right' 6 months they do somewhat continue to be a bit hard work...so I do think your summers would be hard...and your description of life avec bebe BEAUTIFULLY described the early days for me n mr gin. It is hard. But (naff alert) it is completely worth every lost brain cell, every broken night's sleep.

Thanks Cunty.You've made me think. What I'd really like to have are a couple of boisterous hilarious little boys who we can take sailing and to rugby matches and grow up to be slouchy, grunty yet charming teenagers who adore their mum. I've never been one of those women who NEED to reproduce, but I'd like to. The baby part is quite secondary, even though I'm sure it will be lovely. If it doesn't happen then I can see us in twenty years still being the same as we are now, but twenty years older. That's not a bad prospect - we can be a cool aunty and uncle. What you said about rather having the experience than living to regret not having it is just the same as me.

I don't know what I'm saying really. I think you misunderstood me Scorps - it wasn't that I was thinking necessarily about delaying TTC. It's whether we were suited to TTC and parenthood at all.

Aries I'm sure it will be no consolation to you but I feel the same way even now.

I did this for all the wrong reasons, was so focused on/excited about the positive test and proving to myself that I could get pregnant despite the vaseline nature of my uterus, that I 'forgot'/didn't think about the end product and how much my psyche and personal ethos would have to change to accommodate it, and I have buried my head in the sand for 9 months so's I'm only just coming to terms with it now.

Here's the crunch. Are you happy to picture yourself 20 yrs from now with basically the same life or having devoted yourself to something else as a couple rather than a family unit. Or do you want the challenge that child-rearing will bring. For me my days till retirement stretched ahead with no milestones, apart from the odd nice holiday, etc. and this is how I've reconciled myself. I'm still not totally convinced, but on balance I would rather have this experience that live to regret not having it.

Hope I haven't offended anyone with my own personal menkul - I know it perhaps comes across as ungrateful for what I have, but dem's the troofax. No point in dressing it up in a nice fluffy peachy fuzz...

35 plus. Christ. Sometimes (like now) I can't believe how old I've got without my noticing.

Aries, I have to be honest and say that I think it's very foolhardy to take time off TTC to try and time when it's born. There's no guarantees about this stuff even if you were 16, but 35+? It's not worth the risk. I know I'm a dreadful worrier over age & fertility, but I wouldn't guve up for months on end if I was in your shoes. Bloody menz can be so annoying - they just don't seem to get that when they're all laidback and 'I just want you to be happy' about situations that take a lot of thought and communication and agreement between both partners, they're essentially dumping all the stress and responsibility onto the woman. They don't want to get stressed about it so they don't. They are incapable of getting that this approach doesn't make problems go away and that by being inappropriately nonchalant they're just making things even worse for their partner, grrrrrr (can you tell I'm no stranger to this behaviour?).