30s TTC. It was the BESHt of times,it was the worst of times, it was the age of rummaging in gussets, drinking gin.....

Would totally join weightloss support/moany group if there is one going...

HoneyScore (weighing in the weighing in thing): you know as well as we do that feeling/being attractive has fuckall to do with the size of your arse! Case in point being that having perved at photos of you I can confirm that I an at least two dress sizes larger, and yet lack not for admiration (and yes it does count from letchy white van men, newspaper sellers, and general unsavoury types!). And I bet you the price of a months' supply of quinoa that you'd eclipse me as the sun does the moon.

Second case in point being I can wake up one morning and go out in a sack to cover my suet-pudding thighs, and ringing a bell, and moaning UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!, and the very next day sashay out in a tight 50s dress and 3 inch heels. Assuming I did not lose 3 stone overnight one can only assume the difference is mindular (YES THAT'S A WORD).

As to holidays: I am SO bad at moaning and moaning that I can't go away, and 'tis all nonsensical. For instance, I can provide details of the cutest damn beach-hut you ever saw, where you can cook whatever you please, and gaze out to sea, and generally feel amazing, for less than the shittiest youth hostel in town. And as to travel costs - pah! book ahead on TheTrainLine.com and it's pennies, practically. And that's before we even start talking National Express (I once got to the Western Highlands for £20).

I realise I am being annoyingly prescriptive but it's only 'cos a) I love you madly and b) I feel/have felt much the same.

And yes I'll jion your uvverplace moan-group but ONLY if it's mostly about empowerment!

Also Scorps I saw this and thought of you. Yoga & writing, is Scorptastic! 21.5.800 project

Scorps moi luvver. You can get cheap self-catering holidays, you can. Check out www.fleetwaytravel.com/, is v.good for cheap holidays. You might not get much in the way of kitchen facilities in some places - but amazing what you can rustle up on 2 hobs and a grill.

I know what you mean, my lovely, about even when knowing what it is that ails you, it's still extreeeeeemely difficult to take any kind of evasive action. All you can do is think of reasons why not. I was very depressed when I first moved down here and for the first time in my life wasn't surrounded by friends on tap. Helpful suggestions such as "join a badminton club/choir/orchestra etc" just don't work, even though deep down you know it would probably help you at little bit. I'm sorry - that's probably a rubbish example. I guess, like Camelgirl said, it's a question of doing one teeny weeny thing at a time, which will slowly drip feed you. It's very hard if you get into a state.

If I set up a weightloss support/moany group elsewhere , would people join?

By the time I have saved up for a train ticket to That London I shall be a size 8 and have 3 kids, so it's a date!

Me want come stay at Auntie Camel's. I'll be no trouble, honest. Of course, once I'm there, I shall just stay and slowly take over your life, Single White Female-stylee

No, seriously.

Come and stay with me in thatLondon for a weekend and we can do things that cost no money like going to the V&A on a crafts letch? And have a BESHup? And you can cook whatever allergy foods you like.

And if you say one thing about being too fat to come to London, I shall hit you with sticks. I am the official fat munter round here, thank you very much, young lady!

Can't go on holiday anywhere unless we can go self-catering and I know I'll be able to buy food I'm not allergic to, which is always more expensive than hotels. Also, I have no money and can't keep letting TYF pay for eeeeverything. I already don't know what he sees in me (his answer: 'boobs'. I don't know if that's flattering or offensive).

Besides, we are going on a lovely holiday soon - the annual August week at the bloody ILs. Happyhappyjoyjoy!

Wahwahwah, poor me. Is coming up to one year of TTC, so am especially self-pitying at mo.

1. Buy Susie Orbach

1. Read Susie Orbach.

1. Plan a trip to Paris. Seriously, a weekend away, preferably with your man will do you a power of good. Probably more than anything else you're spending money on at the moment. And doesn't have to involve that much cash - I had girly trip with a couple of mates that cost us £30 each a night for a hotel in the Bastille.

1. Go for a walk. Now. Immediately. Even if for 10 minutes before you fall over with tired.*

I am the Metatron.

*Sorry, I know all this is overly directive and I know you know it and I know how hard it is to get out of the loop once you're in it. Big hugs.

Does moaning on here and eating too much count? I find the best way to deal with hatred of being overweight is to be too depressed about it to be able to face eating sensibly or going to the gym. Am at stage where I dread leaving the house because I feel too gross to be seen (please note: I bought a size 12 dress yesterday. This is how mental I am).

If I think about funsy things to do, my mind is a bitch - it either thinks about stuff that'd be impossible to do just as a thing to cheer myself up, ie, go to Paris, OR involves having a child. When I ask myself what would make me happy my mind just throws up images of me playing with my future kids. I feel like everything else is pointless twatting about I'm forced to do before I get to do what I really want. See, I am a total twat and don't deserve sympathy.

Am going to do lots of brainstorming in new journal (I really need to set up a Paperchase Purchasers Anonymous support group) and work out what I can do to get myself out of this funk and how. Short of the lobotomy I so clearly require.

Was going to go to the gym, but slept so badly that when I stand up I sway with fatigue. Fucksticks.

Sorry, lovely! Feminist fail.

Sounds like you have hamster-wheel-anxiety-brain at the moment, lady. Whenever one worry pops down, another one rolls round to take its place, no?

Plus, knowing the reasons for depression and being able to sort it out are two very different things...

Are you doing ANYTHING for yourself? Just for the funs?

PS MS SCORPS! MS!

1. Baby.
2. Lose over 2 stone.
3. Cash.
4. Some sort of creative and/or professional fulfillment.
5. Secret of Eternal Youth.
6. Another baby.

Am not proper 'need to see a Doc about it' depressed, just having protracted existential crisis and babyfail blues. Apart from wanting a baybee, all other crap in life (or stuff I don't have in my life) are my own fault for being too lazy, moany, self-pitying, self-sabotaging, perfectionist, neurotic, menkul (take your pick). I don't think it's brain chemistry-problem depression when you're depressed for really obvious and actual reasons.

Thank you for your caring, Humpster (and all). But until I can actually get my arse into gear and DO summat about all that ails me, then a) it's my own useless fault and b) tough luck. Thank Gawd I have you lovely lot to cheer me up (and tolerate my whining). Snogs and punches all round!

Oh, and I just had to click on the First Time Frolickers thread because it seemed to be written in BESHese - and that's because Aries started it! Hurrah for the Besh.

I am, like Rhianna, Very Busy and Important.

But I am also worried about Miss Scorps, who is clearly doing comedy to cover up the fact that she is very down. Lovely Spiky One, is there anything we/I can do? Apart from give you a baby, which as you know, I would if I could...

My dog could also be cute if she didn't smell of over-full anal glands and fox shit. Off to check out the cute dog...

My dog could be cute if she wasn't always stealing food and rolling in poo...

My dad's. I just steal pictures of her to spread a little happiness around.

That really IS the cutest dog in the world! Is he/she yours?

Btw, if anyone needs cheering up pls to look at my photos. The cutest dog in the world is ready to run at you.

Just a flyby - v v v Busy and Important.

TagCassStewpot - have a great shagathon holiday in the New Forest. Tis very lovely.

I must gear myself up to SWI. Extreme busyness, tiredness and money worries are not conducive to passion but needs must . Anyone any tips?

My house is starting to repulse even me. I've got ants in the kitchen ffs. The horrid little bastards are everywhere. How do I get rid of them. How? HOW? Shall I go and ask in Good Housekeeping ?

But I fucking hate cleaning! For some reason, youse lot are confusing me being a bit fixated with hygiene with me enjoying cleaning. I'm more of a hand-washing OCD loon than anything else.

And I'm depressed - doing housework, which I loathe more than anything else on earth, will NOT cheer me up. When I'm down, I struggle with making myself do the things I enjoy, never mind boring crap.

BLAHBLAHBLAHBOOHOOHOO, someone punch me!

Argh, am tagine AGAIN. FFS Windows, remember!