To TTC or not to TTC, that is one of the many questions...

Hello all,
Am back from a night in Nottingham as it was BIL's 50th birthday (dire - more later.)

LST I am REALLY sorry to hear about your dad! Anything that involves the word 'cancer' is bloody scary, and I do know what you mean about the realisation they are not immortal. Thank god it's been spotted early and will hopefully be able to be treated relatively quickly and easily. Lots of love xxx

HP - I do NOT want to hear you took the damn pill, understand...?!

YTD and LQ you are making early pregnancy sound like a slightly weird sleep fest! How on earth do people cope when it's their subsequent child?

I am back after being at a 50th party for DH's brother. I say party but it wasn't a party as I'd describe a party. Even DH says that his family doesn't do parties very well. It is very VERY awkward and stilted and bloody hard work! Add to this, DH's mother gets into a state about everyone being okay (she gets really nervy and fretty) and that her hearing is awful so she can't hear anything anyone says (so assumes it must be something about how they are too cold / hot / hungry or whatever.) The party was in a room above a pub and was pretty soul less. We got there at 7 as instructed but the mini bus didn't come to get us until 12.45 - boy, it was a looong night! I was determined not to drink too much and did manage to pace myself very well (I wouldn't want to be drunken in front of them - although have before - as none of them really seem to and also god knows what I might say / do.) DH on the other hand was hammered and kept saying 'I'm certainly not doing this for my 40th, we're going to Cambodia instead!' Not entirely appropriate really, but what the hell! (Was nice that he was being the drunken one rather than me for a change!) Spent quite a large chunk of the night talking to one of DH's sister in law's about how I didn't want kids - she asked me you see so I did my usual spiel. I am not sure why I do this (terminally immature perhaps?) It maybe force of habit as it's only until recently that I have changed my mind, and even that's debatable. I think I also don't like the fact that people assume you do as it's the done thing. Do many of you talk about wanting children (or maybe wanting children) in RL? Or do you save it for here, like me?

LST do be careful with the condoms! Someone I know got pregant while on the drugs for IVF which are meant to shut down your fertility - the doc told her that he was sorry the IVF hadn't worked, and then grinned and told her why! Hope it's not too heavy going with the medication, and even if it is remember it's a means to an end!

I'm just about to not take my pill.

Had a small wobble earlier.

Am half asleep but will catch up tomorrow.

Oh yes HP are you around? I thought you wanted us to keep you away from popping those pills!

YTD i feel that the dreams are a perk . i seem to spend so much time sleeping too and i feel less bad now that you are feeling the same. I didnt think it would be as bad as this. I did get up early this morning and then go swimming but then came back, had a nap, curled back up for another proper nap when DH came home, popped out this evening as DH had to get his mothers day card and I am just rubbish. Even had the opportunity to go out for dinner and I was just so so tired. Plus the fact that my boobs, OMG, there just have little pangs going through them all the time. Knackeredness and hurty boobs makes me a v unhappy camper so I have come to bed with the laptop and a yoghurt.

Levistubbstears Great signing off will try not to but in again but of luck to all on this thread.

Thank you so much, Italiangreyhound, that's really lovely of you. I have been meaning to come back onto Assisted Conception thread, but haven't had much to report (other than "still not started") and everyone on there seemed to be having such big experiences (good and bad) - somehow I felt a little uncomfortable weighing in with consolations and congratulations as I didn't feel I knew people, being so new (and intermittent) to the thread. But I think I'll feel more a part of things when I start with the whole business. Really hope things are going ok with you - I'll come back on AC pronto and find out!

Great dreams, lq! I've heard that pregnancy makes people, er, libidinous (trying not to say horny!). Enjoy it. I'm sure vivid dreams are quite common with all the hormones swirling around. Thanks for the wishes re. my dad - it's about as good as it could be so I'm not complaining - in fact realize how lucky I am - but it's just that realization that they're mortal (ok most people get this a lot earlier than me - delayed psychological maturity - oh yes!).

Hope everyone has a lovely weekend - I'm off to the library to write an essay - rock 'n' roll, eh?!

Morning all

LSTso sorry to hear the news about your dad. Its a very scary place when someone mentions the c word but I am pleased that they have been able to find it early on. Sending lots of positive thoughts and hugs to you.

Your bag of medicines sounds quite interesting. Totally understand your needles over nasal spray argument - couldn't bear to put something up my nose, yuk!

Thanks for your congrats (I cant remember if you said it either, i must admit i sometimes get the treads a bit confused).

I want to hear from YTD to find out if she is having the crazy symptoms I am having at the moment?! This will give you a laugh... the strangest rudest dreams about very very attractive unattainable men. Not famous men but none of them are DH (bless). I'm just going to enjoy it while it lasts. Though last night I had a dream about being in a disgusting toilet and I actually woke up this morning physically gagging. Oh well rough with the smooth!

I'm about to hoard my lardy bum off to the gym now to go swimming. Got the info from SW consultant about doing the plan in pregnancy so am going to start that too.

LeviStubbsTears Hi, so sorry to just but in but was just wondering how you were as had not seen you on another thread and saw your name at the top of the list. Just wanted to say so sorry to hear about your dad, will say a little prayer for him. Also wanted to say good luck for your treatment, you are not far behind me and I really wish you all the best.
Italiangreyhound from the Assisted Conception thread - no need to reply, just wanted to wish you well.

Hello ladies,

So sorry I've been a bit quiet - busy, and a few ups and downs. Was a bit gutted, somehow, when I got my AF for the last time before IVF - in part because I'd had this secret and totally irrational hope/feeling that we might just do it on that last cycle. But should be pleased really that there is some action to be taken at last. To that end, I went to the clinic today and picked up my enormous purple bag full of medicines - it's actually huge, as it contains a box for discarding sharps (used needles, oh yes, I've got all the lingo now). I should start injecting for the 'down-regging' (when they provoke a temporary menopause - what fun...) around 23rd March - I've opted for injections rather than a nasal spray, rather to their surprise, as I would prefer to stick needles into myself than spray stuff up my nose, and it seems a little more certain you're delivering the right dosage. Haven't actually tried yet, obviously, but I'm pretty mellow about needles (piece of cake, right, confused!).

The weirdest thing about this limbo is that we're NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HAVING UNPROTECTED SEX!!! They obviously have to make sure I'm not pregnant when I start the down-regging, but it does seem a little crazy. Haven't bought condoms for a loooong time. Still, better show willing and reassure DH that we can and will have sex without the sole purpose of procreating...

Otherwise things a little fraught - my dad has been diagnosed with bladder cancer. They've caught it really early, and should be able to blitz it with targeted chemo, and are even talking about a possible 'cure' (and even if it reoccurs it can be managed pretty well). But somehow the 'c' word is still scary. But I know (and we all do on here) how lucky he and my family is that it was caught relatively early. It's slightly tricky to know how concerned to be, and in particular how much I should be talking to my parents over and above the normal. I get the feeling they want to carry on as normal, and there's no reason not to for the moment, but I don't want them to feel I'm just ignoring it, or not taking seriously the anxiety they are inevitably feeling, or for that matter what my dad has been through in terms of surgery etc. and has ahead of him - though the chemo is localized and absolutely nothing like the usual horrible stuff.

Anyway, quite enough from me. How are you feeling, YTD?! Hope you're not getting too exhausted. And all good wishes for your friend and her baby - sounds scary, though basically ok, thankfully. My sister was 5lb 4, like confused, and I was 5lb 7 (my mother doesn't eat, basically!) and we're both strapping women now! [Looks at impossible-to-shift belly ruefully...]

HP, HP! That is so exciting!! And from my perspective at least so nice of your DH to take some responsibility onto himself and own this (in the horrible jargon of the day) as his decision too. At least I hope it felt like that. I just wish my DH would be like that and actually make some sort of positive statement - it would make it so much easier for me to press on with all this. (I can't complain though, really - he's stopped whingeing, which is pretty good in itself, and even made some observation about not booking to go away before Christmas as I may not be up to too much travel.) Anyway, v. best of luck with the first (big) step. I will probably be around tomorrow night so will look in and wave encouragingly.

Congrats too, lq (can't remember if I said that already) - you didn't dither long on the ditherers' thread! It is bananas that we've got two BFPs in such quick succession.

Hope you're doing ok, Suerock - all sounds very tough at the moment. I feel the same about working - though as you say am full of admiration for those (of either sex) who stay at home with their kids - that is really hardcore hard work. And very valuable. I am still in complete career turmoil, trying to decide whether or not to leave my current job, and jettison/waste all the years of education and temporary jobs and poverty and crap that it took to get here. But I know I'm lucky to (currently) have some degree of choice. And I know those choices (if they even exist - the alternatives being rather speculative) will diminish dramatically once I have a kid. It's such an old-fashioned, bra-burning feminist word, but it basically is bloody patriarchy (without any hostility meant to most of the individual men I know).

Am crossing everything for a quick and satisfactory (or more than) house sale, confused - the market is a bit slow at present, but people do know a good thing when they see it, and I'm sure the right person will come along soon.

OK, bet you're wishing I had kept schtum now! Sorry for the mammoth post. Lovely to catch up with you all, though, and will keep you posted, probably in horrible detail knowing me, about the fun few weeks I have ahead!

I don't think you need to worry too much any more about your DH's lack of green-ness HP I'll be with you in spirit on Saturday evening but possibly not in virtual-person as our internet connection is on the blink. But you know, coming off the Pill would be a good experiment to collect lots of data on, err, well, interesting physiological stuff!

I think you are absolutely right about the lack of systems being in place for equality in this country - and I would include in that the lack of opportunity for dads to care for their kids too. But I should say before anyone throws anything at me, that I completely and utterly respect anyone's decision to give up their career for children. I'm just not sure I can do it myself, and it frustrates me that I'm only backed into this corner because I'm a woman. Ssss....

I had my first RL TTC conversation today! (apart from with DH of course) It was truly weird to talk about the stuff we talk about on here, but incredibly reassuring to know that at least one other person is in a very similar dilemma to me.

Have a good weekend all of you. xx

Cripes...we will still be using condoms, though, I'm not rushing headlong into TTC . I guess we will just see how it goes regards how I am off the pill and if I can get a new job. I am very green, but still in a passive way, like, oh, it would be nice one day.

My stats (for now) remain...

HoneyPetal-SparklePants nTTC(no hash on a Mac)1 cycle 1 UCL28 CD4

YTD - do you temp? Im not happy with my thermometer, when it stores my temp it gives two different readings. And my temps so far have been in the 96.6-96.9 F range, which seems low. I looked up the normal range and Im within that, but Im below the TCOYF graph starting point. Maybe its the pill effect?

Hurrah - nearly the weekend!

(I hope someone is around tomorrow night to make sure I'm not sat with my pill packet in hand again....)

Can't really post as at work, but OMG!! OMG, OMG, OMG!

Okay - so far in the running it's

1. YTD
2. LQ
3. LST (I hope!)
4. HP SP - ???!!

Will try write later tonight (am away this weekend)

yay for you HP xx

Yup. He said 'Right, HoneyPetal, enough is enough. You are lovely but can't make a decision for shit. So I've decided, you will stop the pill, as we discussed and agreed last month, and whatever happens we will cope and deal with it'.

I know, I couldn't believe she said it. In front of loads of other people as well. Clearly I give off a non-maternal energy. I nearly cried.

HP - at someone saying that to you!
Tosser.

Just re read your last post - YOUR DH HAS MADE THE DECISION FOR YOU? Do elaborate!

I second that, LST, come back if you can and rant - or not rant - whatever suits x

Hi all. Just a brief one from me this evening, but good to read all your posts.

I'm glad your friend is ok and the baby is being looked after well, YTD. I was going to ask the name, but if course we can't do details like that!

Suerock, don't get me started! Did you see all the flack that headmistress took in the press because she dared to suggest that telling girls they can 'have it all' is unrealistic and potentially damaging? My experience is that while obviously progress has been made, old attitudes linger and systems are just not in place for true equality or choice.

Confused, a week is definitely no time at all! The housing market is a totally different beast than it was three years ago. Poor DH, I hope he isn't worrying too much. As for your tummy, I'm in the same boat. I'm so sick of people glancing down when they see me, looking for a bump.

On that note, a visitor at work made a really horrible comment to me at work today, along the lines of 'when did you decide you didn't want children then?'. Thanks a fucking bunch. I'm only 32, and hopefully look a bit younger. What a cow.

To everyone else, hello! LST, come back! Tell us how you are getting on. You don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, or you can bend our ears with megaposts.

(First pill of the packet would be 11pm on Saturday night. But don't worry, DH has told me that he has made the decision for me, and I'm coming off it. I'm not saying anything after the debarcle of PillGate, but I love making my graph)

Hello all

suerock sorry to hear about your job, really hope that things improve for you soon. Thank you for your congratulations.

YTD glad that you have your initial MW appointment. I am still waiting to her when mine is but only saw the GP on Monday so guess Im being impatient but I wanna know how things are damn it! And your not going to believe this but my due date is 8th Nov too! It will be a photo finish! This s if I worked it out on a 28 cycle but to ber perfectly honest I dont know how long mine is. Not really sure how I would go back at work it out. The GP said to me are you sure its 28 days, I said I pretty much think so. maybe I'll have to try and back track & see.

Also have you been getting any symptoms? I have become a bit obsessed to be honest - do I feel sick/ dont i feel sick. Just got back in from seeing my parents at the pub and felt sick all the way there and then sick and cold for about an hour- weird) - I think Im a bit overzealous because I am still not at work at the moment. I had a meeting with my boss today though (my suggestion) who told me that she could see the stress coming (!) but other than that was fairly supportive.

confused good plan with the flowers etc and some good feedback from viewers so far who are probably always told to never jump straight into the first house you see but once they've had a butchers around they might come back for a second viewing.
Got the info through about doing SW so will show my enthusiasm to the midwife when I see her and hopefully she won't treat me like the fat kid from the Bash Street kids!

I was 5lbs 4 when I hatched so your friends baby isn't too small (realise he is still premature though.) Things appear to be going reasonably well by what you said, I'm very glad!

I agree, 6 days is a bit too soon! He gets this from his mother - I think that's why his mother winds me up so much, TBH. Anyway, we now have feedback and apparently both sets of people liked it but in both cases it's the first house they've seen so it's very early days. We are away this weekend so am stocking up on fresh flowers etc and will leave the house 'viewer friendly' for over the weekend.

Ooh yes, YTD, I hope your friend is okay. I was writing my post this morning when DH came in and was talking to be (or trying to) at the same time, hence I forgot to ask.

When I wrote the semi rant this morning I forgot to add that I didn't think it was the mother's responsibility to stay at home rather than the fathers, I think I think it should be one or the other as much as poss in the early years (not always possible financially I realise.) That is due to the reasons and examples I gave above. I wouldn't want to do it anyway.

(Again DH keeps interjecting - I am responding rather than saying shut up as, apart from that also being rude, I don't want to start wondering what on earth I'm doing on this site all the time! This also means I might be a bit disjointed or will forget things!)

Oh, and the person who asked if I was 'expecting' did so with a glance at my stomach. This makes the self esteem sink even lower... (I am now thinking the midriff of Hannah Waterman in the 'before' pictures.)

So, HP SP - Decision Day in three day's, eh? We await your decision with baited breath...

I guess what I find so frustrating about the whole baby vs career thing is that I grew up thinking I could have both. I remember telling my mum I was going to be a SAHM like her so my kids got the good upbringing she gave me - but then I decided to be a scientist and no-one told me that scientists can't have career breaks, or at least no more than a year off to have a baby. If I knew I could go back into my current field after five years off to get my children as fas as infant school, I'd be a whole load less stressed out than I am. What's more frustrating though, is that DH and I sort of had a plan sussed, which was going to involve both of us going part time for a bit to look after the baby, which would keep both of us in the job market but still give us time to enjoy bringing up a baby. But a new employer is hardly going to love that idea

Anyway. Rant over. I can go on for hours about how much women do not have equal rights and opportunities, whatever anyone else says.

Meant to ask - YTD how is your friend? Is the baby cooperating and staying put for a bit?

Hi Suerock, I am really sorry to hear about your job. Like HP said, hopefully something great will be around the corner. My fingers are crossed for you and sending you a hug x

As for the career vs baby situation, I'd go for the baby every time, although I am possibly not a very good example as I am not very career orientated! However, I do have a friend who is VERY successful and she lived for her job - relationships suffered due to this, she missed family weddings etc etc - and then she got to 39 and a half and got pregant within six weeks of meeting the biggest twat I think she could find. (Think of Mark Croft who was / is married to Kerry Katona.) A year later she was pregnant again, and on the phone to work as they wheeled her in for her c-sec (and back on the phone the day after.) She is now back at work full time and the twat and the nanny (they have got through several nanny's due to the twat) look after the kids. The elder one, a girl, gets very pissed off about mummy being away a lot with work and I know that would make break my heart. My mum took on her husbands two daughters as their mum had to choose between her job / boyfriend or her kids. She chose the former and I think it has caused lots of damage to the kids - also, my mum once said, why have children and pay someone else to bring them up. I realise that people do have to work but what I am saying is that, personally, I'd want my job to take a back seat while my children were little as you can't get that time back and also, and sorry to sound like Kevin the Teenager, they didn't ask to be born.

Re our house - we have had two viewings so far but no offers and no feedback. DH is now in a flap about this (albeit a mild one) but I'm not. Que sera sera and all that. It's only been on 6 days so it's not long. We'll be able to make an offer for the house we want once we have had one on ours. Hopefully it won't be long.

Suerock, its just rubbish, you have my every sympathy. I saw the story (and heard bits and pieces from friends in industry) and wondered if that was the boat you were in. News like that must have pulled the rug out from under everyone's feet and you have every right to be upset and shocked. How much notice have they given you (and not to pry, but I hope you are getting some sort of package to tide you over until you find a new, fantastic job)?

Im in the same boat regards feeling like I have substantially more career options open to me if we dont have a family. You become the invisible scientist around here if you get pregnant! Dont worry about how green you feel at the moment, you have so much on your mind. Maybe you are slightly greener in your heart than you think if you are continuing in the same vein as before?

I know its no comfort at all, but in my darkest times I ring my Nanna, and she always says that you never know what is around the corner and things always have a way of working out, eventually. She is a very lovely, wise lady.

(Yes, I have the thermometer. I have three temperatures on my graph . And its three days until Decision Day Mark II)

Thought it was about time I peeked in here again.....

YTD - proper congratulations this time on your BFP! I'm so delighted and excited for you, and your good news was a little bright spark in a dark day last week. I'm sure you're going to want to hang out with some due-in-November mums-to-be, but please keep posting here too!

lq - congratulations to you too - can't believe we managed two BFPs in one week on this thread! I hope you manage to get your stress and work problems sorted - it sounds like you have lots of people supporting you.

confused - just a thought, but was the person who asked you if you were expecting specifically referring to a bit of extra tummy, or could it have just been a general question? I'm so paranoid about offending someone that I wouldn't ask even if they looked 9 months pregnant, but other people aren't so reticent and I've been asked the same question when I've done things as innocent as refused a glass of wine, not chosen soft cheese, mentioned wanting a bigger house etc! Thinking of houses, it all sounds very exciting on the house front for you. What's next - wait for an offer on your current place or push the guy who's selling the one you want to accept your offer?

HP - I can't believe you've bought a thermometer! I thought about it, but then decided I would be so erratic about using it that the error bars would be too big.....

LST - you've been quieter than me recently - how are you doing and is there any news on the appointment yet?

As for me, I've stopped bursting into noisy sobs at the slightest provocation, but hell, when you've seen senior male managers in tears you kind of feel like you're in good company. DH and I have decided not to change any baby plans because it would get impossibly complicated to try and time potential stages of pregnancy/maternity leave round a new job, especially when we haven't exactly had a good track record in getting up the duff. It's a complete burger though, because what I do next does depend on whether I think I'm going to have a family. If I'm definitely not, then there are more options. I can't believe what rubbish timing it is, though BTW if you're curious, the scale of the cull made the front page of the BBC website

So, not feeling specially green at the moment. No change there then