To TTC or not to TTC, that is one of the many questions...

HP, you wouldn't have to use the potty, the child would.

Also, am I right in coming to the conclusion that since you stopped your pill you've spent more time peering at your knickers than you've ever spent in your life? Just wondered...

Am going madly and badly green. I think this has been promted by the fantasy upbringing of fantasty child which in turn was prompted by the pending visit of friend with 9 year old I am not keen on. Weird.

There is no blood . Its just that a temperature dip of that magnitude normally precedes your period. But apparently at 8-10 days post ovulation (I am 9DPO) it can also signify implantation. Ive had a good read of what FF says now, and its definitely not a definitive sign of implantation, sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt, so all may be well.

Ive had a lovely weekend surrounded by family and people who speak with the same accent as myself! Hurrah! Spent a lot of time with my gorgeous neices and nephews, which was fun. Feel a bit blue at leaving them all.

Ive thought a bit more about the bringing up of kids. I don't like potties. They make me heave. I wouldn't want to use one of them.

Other than that, am not thinking too much about it, as am still grappling with the TTC or not TTC issue! Eggs and sperm are demanding enough for now, for me!

(am also shocked by the pizza tale)

I can't believe that about the pizza - shocking!

Glad to hear everything?s started well with the jabs, LST, - I think you?re very mad brave to go for injections when inhaling was an option! But maybe that?s just me not liking needles. Anyway, I?m sending you positive thoughts and wishing you all the very best of luck that it works out and we get another BFP on here

Yeah, I have an aversion to just pink for girls and just blue or khaki for boys too (hence the infamous rainbow coloured cardigans) ? but even my friends who swore they would never conform now say that once you get beyond the newborn stage, there?s really very little stuff available which isn?t blue or pink. Though maybe they?ve not been looking on the internet ? I?ve never asked. I guess it depends what you can get your hands on, and if your kid is going to grow out of it in a few months and your mate?s given you a big bag of pink stuff, you just go with it.

Yay to back seat parenting! I hope I?ve never given anyone in RL the impression that I have opinions about how they bring their kids up (I would be mortified if so ? it?s none of my business to stick my nose in) but I often do?. (have opinions that is) And while a lot of the kids I know do have a great upbringing, there are just a few where I can?t help thinking the parents have set themselves up for a whole load of trouble later on. I?ve never forgotten having to leave an event early because the bloke who was giving me a lift afterwards was summoned home urgently by his wife - their 3 year old daughter wanted pizza and she wanted it NOW. So he had to drop me off, race to the takeaway and get home to stop the tantrum?.. Oh, and yes, my kids are going to love books and growing things and science and being outdoors, definitely. I shall write it into their contracts

lq - it sounds like you?re having a rubbish time at work, but it sounds like you?ve kind of worked out where the difficulties are. I hope your bosses are nice and supportive about you going back. Keep hold of that ?fight? that your mum says you have!

HP - I?ve had random bleeding at funny times in my first cycle when I came off the pill ? try not to worry.

Have to scramble?.

Just a quick post and run, as am still working, but back later.

Goodness me you lot have given the raising issue a lot of thought! To be totally honest my considerations haven't extended much past lots of fresh air and no TV in bedrooms. I guess Im still very far away from entertaining the idea of being a parent, so haven't formed any firm ideas. I dont mind pink too much, as I'm still quite red (tee hee).

And on that note, are you still around YTD? I have had a huge temp dip (1degF) on DPO9 (aka today!). There is no sign of any blood yet, but FF has freaked me out saying this may be a possible sign of pregnancy, combined with the sexy action during ovulation. Have you ever seen this? Please reassure me its a data collection blip or suchlike! Also, I know a 'healthy' luteal phase is >10 days, so Id rather not start bleeding just yet!

Right, back later!

SeaGreen I have tapped into your brain. It's taken you a while to notice but that's because I tapped into the delayed realisation section at the same time. Hope you don't mind.

Have wasted spent the rest of the afternoon browsing various twee French sites and then Ebay for the likes of Mini Boden, Pampolina and Catimini and getting a bit carried away (I do confess!)

Stripes and spots rule! As children grow so quickly there is LOADS of stuff on Ebay for next to nothing too which looks practically new. I guess they won't fit in it long enough to wear it out. Madness to spend £45ish on a baby's cardigan from Catimini for example when you can get the same but barely worn for about £3 inc postage.

My fantasty baby is going to be beautifully dressed for about a fiver! Shame I can't do the same for me...

Confused - ?fess up- you?re reading my thoughts!-me too! Love that catalogue (people who we bought our place from had a subscription and it still comes and I confess I go through that catalogue top to bottom! Esp mini boden. Have never bought anything from boden though)! I am totally stripes and spots.
Have of late started trawling all these fabric sites. Not an ounce of sewing ability but lots of wishful thinking. will post some of my favourite patterns.

YTD I?m totally with you!
Check out the Pink Stinks campaign !! the level of gender stereotyping often descends to the insidious.
Also, pink was supposed to be the colour for boys not so long ago! My kid, boy or girl, will have a healthy mixture of all the colours. Pink might be a bit harder as far as a boy is concerned, but a girl will always have a lot of blues..

Hurrah for you feeling all excited, YTD!

While I don't have any aversion to pink stuff generally, I am more of a stripes and / or spots kind of girl (well, would dress my LO in.) While I realise this is a MN cliche, I do like Mini Boden and similar.

Oooh! Oooh! Flash of green! Argh!

Oh yes, what I forgot to mention before was TV. In an ideal world I would not want my child watching much TV. Some very dear friends of mine have it on all the time with their kids and it's horrendous - we went on holiday with them and C Beebies was on from the minute they got up when we were in the house. While this is quite extreme, I would like to think that TV would play a very MINIMUM part in our lives, rather like it does now with me and DH. I know it must be very tempting to shove them in front of it once in a while and it is unrealistic to expect us to soley have an existance of non-stop constructive activites (baking, junk modelling, painting, stories blah blah blah) I would try and keep it very minimum indeed.

Also, computer games. UGH! Cannot bear them! Also, the friend who's coming this weekend hates them too but her son doesn't, and hi9s dad bought him a playstation and a Wii. Friend therefore lets him and his friends play for an hour (bear in mind about half of this hour would be spent arguing over which game, loading it up etc) and then makes them all play outside. I think this is a good approach as banning them would make them all the more exciting so this is a happy medium. She said that ten mins after the playstation was put away they were building a den in the garden and pretending to make an Indian campfire - FAR nicer than playing fecking Tomb Raider!

LQ, sorry to hear you've been feeling low. It sounds a shitty situation at work, and it's now even more tricky due to the pregnancy. It sounds like you have done the right thing by turning your back on the project that was making you so stressed and ill. I think you should be focussing on keeping yourself and that bean as well as possible and sod the rest of it. I realise that may not be brilliant career wise long term, but neither is all the bollocks that's going on now good for either you or t'bean short term.

YTD couldnt agree with you more re all of the pink stuff - yuck! I hate all that pink plastic crap that you can buy and all that "spoilt princess" crap too.

Hey all

This thread never fails to make me laugh!

LST good luck with your injecting!

Confused & SeaGreen like your parenting views

Now the ranting starts....

Wasn't really on over the weekend as I felt overwhelmingly moapy. It is all the work stuff and the prospect of going back when absolutely nothing appeared to have changed and i just thought how then hell am I gonna do this. So contacted the union (yes its a bit strange at our place, they would rather that you speak to the union than HR . That has filled me with a bit more confidence (as my mum said yesterday on the phone I sound like I have some fight left in me). I've requested that I no longer work on the project I was working on that made me incredibly stressed, or the managements handling of it did and despite the fact that its a subject I feel massively passionate about I feel more passionate about keeping myself well and sane. The last few weeks i realised i have been through some pretty dark times. Sometimes its only the knowledge that its not just my health that I need to look after but the bean too has pulled me through.

Its taken me a while to also come to terms with the fact that its not my fault if I am no longer working on that project and its not because I am crap or incapable. But I just realised that I would be forever trying to make things happen and push things forward and I wouldnt be allowed to do so. So what can you do?

Hopefully they will go for it. also need to tell them about the pregnancy sooner than I had originally planned - bearing in mind we still haven't told our folks yet.

Right off to squeeze the girls into a non- maternity swimsuit, have a good day x

I'm with you both (confused and Seagreen) on all of those things. Had never thought about animals, I guess, as they don't feature much in my life, but have always thought going to pet lambs, feed ducks and horses etc were among the nicer ways of entertaining children so that far at least I'm with you on that one! Was thinking about what SG said about nature, which I completely endorse - what worries me slightly (one of the million things) is that I'd like my kid(s) to be into nature and have an appreciation of, e.g., how food grows, and be used to playing outside rather than indoors. But I have to confess to being in front of the computer screen (though not the tv) far too much - and not just on MN! - and to being almost phobic about gardening (I know this is rubbish). So what sort of example am I going to set? I really don't want them to get into tv, computers and so on too early. But my DH is a computer scientist, and I'm addicted to my laptop and IPhone, so things are going to have to change rapidly to avoid this. I get all Victorian about the level of sexualization of childhood and children too - horrible dolls and clothes and underwear for kids, and making babies wear bikini tops for goodness sake etc.

I would really like my children to be independent too, but worry about this as I was the wettest child in the world in some ways (hopefully not so bad now!) and I don't think my parents were particularly smothering. Wasn't frightened of things so much as just quite thin-skinned at school and over-empathized with others. Would probably have picked my toys up, up to a point at least, though! I've gone on about this before but I think I'm going to find it quite hard to strike a balance between being considerate towards others and sticking up for oneself and being assertive. Haven't worked this out in my own life, let alone any child's!

And definitely books. I don't think any kid of mine would stand a chance with this one, as that's my number one favourite thing to do with anyone else's child (read them a story) and we have piles of books all over the place as we don't have enough bookshelves, and at least one grandmother will also shower them with books. They'll probably rebel and refuse to read a word, thinking about it!

Would love to hear more about our mums-to-be on this one. And what would your back-seat parenting entail, hp? Do tell! Volcanos out of baking soda and worm farms? I've always wanted to indulge my inner scientist (kept inner by being a bit rubbish at science in reality, sadly!) through a child.

God I sound like the worst kind of over-ambitious over-intellectual (ha!) pushy parent. AS IF. I'll be lucky to get them into the back garden fully clothed and fed, I suspect!

Anyway, this is all a bit weird as it feels as though it may be just one step closer to reality (though of course maybe not).
[Hurriedly stops writing and thinks about other things!]

Seagreen you are starting to freak me out! Either we have very similar outlooks on things or everyone has these outlooks but we've not actually noticed yet!

I am with you on the books too - very much so (am a writer after all!)

Blimey.

I bet I?ll read this someday and laugh! That day will be the day I?m bone tired, sleep deprived, frazzled and covered in dog hair and baby sick, when I?ll say ?GAH let the sproglet grow up any way it likes, upside down if it wants to!?
and i'll be laughing at my idealistic self and say "am i BOVVERED!"

LST - internet hugs and lots of luck for strong swimmers and welcoming eggs!

Confused - it's scary how alike we think sometimes!
Totally- independence is one of the really important things I would want to inculcate in my child- starting from picking up after oneself, to being able to think for oneself. To some extent my sibling (big gap) has been my social experiment in that!
Also, tolerance and open mindedness, a love for nature and animals (non-negotiable!) I LIKE to think that I would not be one of those over fussy mums but suspect it will take some time (read: years) for me to get chilled out! Not much else. Oh and yes, I would like to keep their childhood innocent. i.e. no growing up extra quick/ cool gadgets/ brand consciousness too early.
Oh, and last but definitely not the least, I would like to inculcate a love of books.

Evening all,
I have been browsing through some pics of Facebook of the hen do of the friends who are getting hitched soon, the husband to be was at ours last night as we're doing the Order of Service. From looking at the pics, I have an urge to say, shout even, THANK GOD I WASN'T THERE! I am not keen on hen do's anyway, but especially when they involve matching t-shirts, fancy dress for the bride and, in this case I have to confess, lots of excitment over a wedding I personally don't think is a good idea. (Ooops, I have said it - oh well.) Lucky escape or what!

Right, following on from last night, I am now wondering if any of us do already have ideas over what we'd be like, or try and be like, if we were parents (or when they are parents in the case of LQ and YTD.) I realise (hope!) that things like good manners etc are a given, but I am on about other more particular aspects which you think would work well - whether it's following the footsteps of parents you know or doing the opposite of parents you know!

As you know from my previous rant, I am very much in favour of children becoming independent. This is something I would want to encourage as much as possible as I have seen how this can improve the confidence of little one's from working at a friends nursery. I would also like to think I'd be quite firm but, while I manage this with other people's children, I am not so sure I'd be quite as firm as I'd like to be with my own (if my dog rearing has anything to go by!) Still, I can always try! Some friends of DH are wonderful parents (and as the wife is quite poisonous generally this is extra remarkable) and I think I would try and emulate some of the things they do. When their daughter goes up for her bath, for example, she stays upstairs and then is put to bed. And she seems to realise that once it's bathtime you then wind down as it'll be then bedtime. I know so many kids who are up and down the stairs till 9pm that I am guessing bedtime can be an issue and the friends with the poisonous wife have never had this (realise this is no guarantee however!) Also, the same people's daughter bit another kid at nursery. It was near Christmas so they made her (aged 5) put the Christmas presents in a bin bag while they thought about whether she really ought to have them after biting someone etc. I know people who make empty threats and not follow through, but this approach really worked. (And the little girl got most of the presents back, although they did keep a few 'just in case' and gave them to her a few days later. Needless to say, she's never bitten again! I would also, while I am on a roll, say to my child that they can make a mess etc but make sure they are the one's that clean it up (they have to obviously be a bit older.) Even if I have to stand over and show them what to do so it takes forever, I would NOT just do it myself even if that meant it took 5 minutes rather than 30.

I wonder if I'll read back on the above one day and laugh like a drain....!

I like the phrase Back Seat Parenting! And, as we've 'come out' about it, am prone to doing it all the time. I would like to follow's YTD's thinking that it show's us how NOT to do it, but I think it may more likely show us how naive we were when we thought we could do better.

Hmmm.

Have come over all red now.

Morning all,

Im working on that report now (even though I am technically on holiday ), and like LST should be typing away but I have a bit of apathy writers block so thought I would pop back on.

Big cheers for LST injecting so confidently. Both you and YTD are setting an example to us long term ditherers with your persistence and positivity in the face of natural doubts and worries.

I love back seat parenting! What is left to us in life if the childless cant judge and criticise parents??

I submitted that application and then had a big 'bugger, what did I just do?' moment. But then I rethought about the permanent contract and felt a bit better. Hope it doesnt get out that Im applying for jobs though, especially away from the bench. Dead Scientist Walking.

Id better go and get this report done.

God, no problem, confused - it is no big deal really at this stage. It's always hard to catch up with this thread, it's such a lively one - I never quite do. And MUCH bigger things happening to others on here!

I'm sure we'll all be great mums if/when we get there - but there's no doubt it's harder than it looks (and it looks pretty damn hard).

Anyway, essay for tomorrow's deadline still not finished so better actually do some work today! Have a good week all. xx

One last thing! (Had a drink, sorry.) It is SO easy for me / us to criticise as we don't have any LO's (yet!) and perhaps all we'll be just as bad in our own little ways when or if we do have kids of our own. Only time will tell.

And on that note, good night! x

ps Don't think friend's son is inconsiderate as such, it's just that it doesn't occur to him that there is anyone else in the world other than him. He also, when the mood takes him, talks in a baby voice, but, as I am trying not to be catty, I'll leave things there...

Hey, LST, so sorry I didn't mention your imminent injection starting in my other posts! I was catching up with a few so overlooked it, but really, it's such a big deal that it's no excuse. Sorry again! Glad to hear the jabbing isn't a big deal, it's not painful or anything really, and trust me I know! I think the bigger deal is psychological and it seems like that is not a big deal. Do keep us posted with how it's going and, as always, we're here to hear any venting or ranting! x

Hi all,

Well, first injection successfully accomplished!! Little bit scary that it has now started, and there's no backing out now... (Well there is, obviously, but it would be a bit crazy too.) Luckily the injecting itself takes about 2 seconds and is painless so isn't something I have to psych myself up for (and so hopefully I can forget about the potential momentousness of what I'm doing!). Thanks for the support, hp - feel like I might need it for some of the subsequent steps...

confused - don't think you should feel bad at all, or I suspect I'd feel exactly the same at least. It doesn't seem good for him (the son) or her (your friend) or her friends (i.e. you) to be allowing that kind of dynamic. I always think - never mind that it's a bit rude to her friends to let her child completely set the agenda when she's with them too, surely it makes life so tedious for her. She can't be everything to her son, though I'm sure she's a great mum - she can't be a companion to make up for/ stand in for siblings (and she certainly shouldn't be a slave).

Anyway, it's easily said. I will have a list of resolutions as long as my arm if I ever get pregnant about what I will and won't do - who knows what I'll turn into. But if it kills me, I want my kids to be at least a bit considerate to other people and their needs/wishes (and that includes me!). I think it's bad when kids don't even see their parents as separate people - this is inevitable when they're young but when they're a bit older it's different.

Anyway, yada yada, what on earth do I know?! Hope you have a good time with them anyway - perhaps he's changed a bit (if it wasn't very recently). And I guess he'll go to bed eventually...

OK, time to go to bed and wait for the hot flushes, headaches and irritability. Oh yes, 'cos they're all going to hit immediately, tonight, I'm convinced of it...