To TTC or not to TTC, that is one of the many questions...

LST sorry if this is a bit out of turn but I would find it hard not to say that I'm a bit upset on your behalf that your DH won't come to the scans with you. I hope that his 'relative sensitivity' with the symptoms in general more than make up for it!

I hope the scan went well today and please, talk about your recalcitrant follicles (whatever they are) all you like!

Delighted you like the Fimo people and of course you can have one - I am actually trying to build up a portfolio so, while I need to cover my costs, I am happy to make a few for much less than is on the site (half the rate at most, depending on what it was and the time it will take.) And no, it's not too RL! (Am a bit crap at the keeping things anonyomous really anyway, I forget that other people may read this thread and go off on one to you guys.)

Is your sister the one who you were telling us about with the baby that doesn't, or at least didn't, sleep? My friends who had the baby 5 weeks ago have had one that doesn't sleep - neither of them sound as if they have slept for more than 3 hours at a time (and that is very rare) since the baby was born. I think that kind of depravation would turn me into a frothing at the mouth lunatic!

HP SP I too am shocked at what the doc implied when you said you were using condoms! Very much so. While I know they are not the most reliable, they are reliable enough not to warrant that kind of a response, surely? I am reading your developments with the mysterious pain with a lot of interest as I have not had it since, or booked to see the doc about it. Bit lax I suppose, but your pain does seem a lot more dramatic and regular than mine.

Hi all,

HP - great to hear from you! Really glad you've found a remedy for the pain, if not perhaps a lasting resolution yet. Must make it easier to know you can control it though. Don't know whether to be amused or alarmed at what the doc said about pregnancy! I always thought condoms were pretty reliable and was always surprised at the idea there were 'accidents' - but turns out they were probably superfluous all those years for me anyway, so who knows if they were reliable or not! Hope the bleeding clears up - probably nothing much, and I think most people get these patches of irregular activity from time to time (and you've got a reason for it post-pill) - but it's always a bit unsettling.

Oh, Suerock, how difficult. I really feel for you. As I think I?ve said, I know quite a few female scientists and it?s a really tough one. Is it really a job that couldn?t be interrupted for a stint of maternity leave? If so is that legal? Mind you, I know that there is legal and then there is what we can realistically enforce, so much for so-called rights? Very best of luck making the decision.

Good to hear from you, YTD - though sorry you're having such a horrilbe time with the sickness. My sister is pregnant again (slightly scarily, for her and her DH, as their son will only be 16 months or so when bub2 is born!) and is also having quite a tough time, though similarly reassured by it on some level. Good luck with the DIY! Will be fab when it's finished. And yes, amazing how motivating a REAL deadline like yours must be, as confused says.

Hope you're ok too, lq, and the sickness switches off like a lightbulb as confused says. Glad that work sounds like it?s going ok, at least.

Love the FIMO people, BTW, confused - want to find an excuse to commission some from you (or would that be too RL to be permitted!). Nice to hear about a man (the one at the wedding) who is enthusiastic about their kids - not that they're that few and far between, but they don't always give voice to it (being men...).

Well, things have been ok with me, in part because I?ve been so stupid busy with work and dashing about the country for work (probably not the most recommended thing at this point!) that I haven?t had time to worry about anything deep. Had my first scan on Tuesday after starting the ovulation stimulation (?stimming? in this weird parlance I?ve started to speak!), and it wasn?t great news in that although I had follicles, they were very small and my womb lining wasn?t as thick as it should have been (you think you know TMI on here ? you just wait!). But not disastrous by any means ? they?ve upped my dose of the stimulating drug (so ovaries like beach balls (well, almost!) by the weekend, probably) so hopefully that will help. Scan tomorrow morning so keep your fingers crossed that I?ve become a bit more, umm, dynamic.

DH has been quite good, in general ? although won?t come with me to the scans etc., so I always feel slightly self-conscious in the waiting room, and as though people are probably thinking I?m going it alone ? which would be perfectly ok, of course, and nothing to be ashamed of, but just feels slightly more conspicuous. (Don?t know if anyone is as sad as I am and listens to the Archers on R4 but there?s a story line along those lines at the moment!) But he is being relatively sympathetic re. the symptoms (which are much better now, BTW) and even spontaneously started a baby name conversation the other night, which was most encouraging (and suggests that ? thankfully ? he may be aware that a baby might, just might be in the offing at some stage!).

Anyway, quite enough from me. I?ll try to restrain myself from giving you too much detail about the progress of my recalcitrant follicles next time!

Am at home now so can post openly (well, almost openly depending on where DH is in the house!)

Oddy, I think I didn't respond directly to your post where you told us, to make it sound rather serious, 'your situation.' However, I can say now what you probably know already, you have found your ideal MN home!

LST hope you're feeling okay and it's going well so far.

YTD that's great news on the house front! Amazing how the prospect of a baby to be can jump start the DIYing! Yes, there will be at least 4 weeks of filth and chaos but, trust me, as soon as it's over it is SO worth it!

I think I'd be beside myself with excitement if my scan was a mere week away! That's one of the good things about being diabetic (well, kind of good) - you get scanned asap and then every 4 and then two weeks till the hopefully not-so-bitter end.

I see that it has been quiet in here but we always did post in peaks and troughs of frequency. I too am doing a sneaky work posting, as my break from MN has resulted in much less iPod/laptop action on an evening, which I am trying to keep up.

First things first to SueRock, its so difficult to know what on earth to do for the best. Wasn?t it all meant to be simpler than this? And I hope that the IVF prep is progressing ok, LST, still have everything crossed for you. Has anyone heard from Angel-wings-YTD? Looking forward to hearing how the first scans go for both YTD and LQ. And Confused, lovely Confused, what would I do without our multi-coloured baby thoughts? Finally (I think), Seagreen, I was convinced more than a few times that I was pregnant, on the pill. Turned out it was an excess of stomach acid

So what have I been up to? Well, firstly I took a few days and a deeeep breath. And then three weeks whizzed by. That?s it really. I tried to give myself a bit of space to see what happened, and it did work up to a point.

I paid a visit to the gynae doctor about two weeks ago. She was really nice, and it was good to be taken seriously, but I have mixed feelings. Despite having many, many of the endometriosis symptoms, she suggested that the pain could be from passing blood clots . She did admit it could still be something else ie the endo, but due to the need for a laparoscopy to diagnose that, instead prescribed me some heavy duty NSAIDs (anti-inflams) that, erm, reduce the flow. And I have to say, that they flipping worked. No horrific fainty pain for me last month! So either she was right, or the NSAIDs had a positive effect on whatever is causing the problem. She was also very supportive of me coming off the pill, and said it was a great idea to see what the effect of that would be. However, she also said this?..

?Are you using any other protection now, or are you TTC? Oh, condoms? Well, come back and see me in 6 weeks and we will have a review and maybe book you in if you are pregnant?.

WTF????

The only other ?cycle? news is that since stopping the pill, I have been bleeding almost every day between my period and ovulation, which I will mention to the doc when I go back.

Hopefully that wasn?t all TMI.

On an emotional level, I have to say Ive been feeling more green since stopping the pill. Not green enough to go for it, but still, more green. And OMG, what is all the extra horniness around ovulation???? Ive had two ovulation events now, and I feel like my head is going to pop with hormonal lust. Sexy dreams anyone? How about my supervisor, David Cameron and my best (male) friend??? And DH, of course .

Also, I didn?t get an interview for the non-bench job, which I was sad about but mainly because it was a permanent contract and an easy commute. Its also made me worry about only having a year left on my contract and not having the faintest clue what I am going to do. Maybe SueRock and I could establish a recruitment agency for scientists, we could call it ?Lost Hope? and target frantic, desperate post-docs!

Well, I hope you?ll all forgive the long post. Im going to try hanging around again, but keep the stress levels below, hmmm, Level 5, if at all possible.

Hello!

I am typing this on the sly at work. If I wait till I get home and can do it openly it'll never happen (as demonstrated last week.)

It has indeed been very quiet here over the last week or two, but I suppose we can't carry on with the same speed and momentum all the time. And, lets face it, all we do is go round in circles anyway!

I have been helping some friends with their wedding, which was last weekend, and then me and DH went away for the night on Monday as it was our two year anniversary. I can also finally show you a link here for the cake toppers we've been making out of fimo. My friend is putting the site together as I don't have a clue about these things. She has been making bags and stuff which is why the site started in the first place and then offered to put my toppers on there too, hence here they are. The site does need work (am not keen on the slide show bit and also think layouts could be improved) so if any of you have any ideas on what would work better please feel free to share!

Also, please bear in mind, that as well as getting half the pics being very hard work indeed (what is it with the complications I have with people and photos? you'd think I'd have learned by now wouldn't you) that some are 'just for now' one's and I will hopefully get some better one's eventually. (I am hoping this link will be buried forever in this thread and I hopefully won't be rumbled at large!)

LQ sorry to hear you are still feeling sick - it sounds like it has got worse more than anything? Hopefully it will stop very soon - apparently some people have it really bad and then it can just instantly stop, just like that. Hope that proves to be the case with you too and then you can crack on with the 'blooming' phase of the whole proceedings.

YTD are you around? I ask as I am guessing that your scan is coming up too? Do pop in and give us an update if you can.

SeaGreen beware of everything that can go on in your head - it's amazing how smallest thing can conjure up all kinds of symptoms and so on (trust me, I speak from knowledge!)

And HP SP - you're back! Hurrah! I would like to say that you have missed LOADS and it will take you ages to catch up with all our news and developments but, alas, I can do nothing of the sort.

I know others, Suerock for example, have posted too and I haven't responded but please let me off at the moment as I can't keep logging onto MN at work (am currently typing this in Word and will cut and paste.)

So, am I green or am I red? Well, situation normal here I'm afraid, which means I am red to green and every colour in between! (Dear me, Confused, that sounds uber cheesy!)

At the wedding there were quite a few little 'uns and they were, largely, lovely. They were also hard work - still cute etc, but bloody hard work all the same. I cannot imagine having to look after something, sorry someone, that intensely and I suppose this is one of the things it is hard to imagine until you are doing it for real.

The best man (has a 4 year old and a 1 year old) was telling me how 7am is now considered a lie in and various other horrors which sounded bloody awful, but (but!) he was also so clearly smitten and enjoying them (although perhaps this is slightly different at 6am) that it did nothing to swing me one way or the other. I also, when more pissed, was talking to someone else at the wedding who has two (aged 5 and 7) and she was saying that she never really wanted any but then had an 'accident' and says it's 'absolutely amazing.' To the point where she is now wanting another as her's are 'getting on a bit' (at 7 and 5?!)

In short, I am, as ever, Confused!

Hey all

Sorry for the radio silence - it has been pretty quiet on here hasn't it?

Hope you are all doing well?

All is ok this end except for the fact that I have been ridiculously sick and tired for the last few weeks. Am back at work as of a couple of weeks ago - things going ok and I have been able to work out of another, closer office when feeling particularly bad, but have thrown in the towel today and taken the day off after being really sick last night at ikea (of all places) then sick this morning. Day before last lots of running into the loo at work so had an early finish. Work have been supportive, goodness knows what people in the office who do not know think.

Currently 11 weeks and really thought the sickness was meant to be slowing down now- meep.

Met Midwife on Mon, really relieved that she is nice, enthusiastic and has a great sense of humour. We go for the scan next week. Looking fwd to it but trying not to think about anything to hard - suddenly brings on a sickly feeling!

Hiya HP SP!! Good to see you!

On my front nothing much to report except: (a) narrowly escaped being stranded due to the ash (b) had pg scare due to odd period like bleeding (sory if TMI!) - it was all mostly in my own overanalysing and terrified head- but (so far) it's a negative so the Lord be praised!

it's funny how half one's life is spent running away from it then the other half chasing it.

Ladies- anything? throw us a scrap!

Hello?

Still dead busy but wanted to ask if YTD and LQ have had their scans yet? Seem to recall it was around now...?

x

Hello all,

I'm still here, and still definitely worrying about whether to go for it or not. It seems like I have a choice of going for a job I want to do, and it not being compatible with having kids (unless I turn out to have super-youthful ovaries), or deciding to go all out for having kids and pick a job I don't like so much and which pays rubbish (and then risking losing a career I've wanted since forever if kids don't happen). And LST's link brought it home to me how much I care about proving that women can be both successful scientists and successful mothers.

And the last week or two have been full of other peoples' (mostly delightful) children at an age where they're cute and interactive, so tipping me over into green. Also a number of bumps of varying sizes which I was less enthusiastic about. And I also got asked by my mother about my child-bearing plans for the first time ever, and had to admit that we weren't preventing pregnancy but we weren't exactly being proactive, and I could sense her disappointment

Hope you're all doing OK with houses and pregnancy and jobs and IVF and thinking and worrying and wondering and stuff...... And that none of you are stranded by volcanic ash nor trying to get away anywhere by air.

S xx

All quiet on the western front.. all well??

Interesting blog post (I thought) about women in science for the benefit of Suerock and hp if she's still reading [waves madly if so]:

sites.google.com/site/speechskscott/SpeakingOut

Back with normal post soon! x

Hi all,
Have been really busy recently (more Fimo wedding couples) and also my laptop has been horribly slow - although that seems a bit better now - hence no postings.

I am in a rush now but may try and sneak a post in at work - will cut and paste this page so I can remember what everyone has been talking about!

Hope you're not feeling too bad LST and no, no house news but crazy neurotic woman doesn't want to 'take things further' as our not overlooked house on a cul de sac is too noisy apparently - this may be a blessing in disguise!

Hi all

Things have been quite quiet on here of late - hope everyone's ok. I'm not too bad, though now getting the horrible headaches and sleeplessness that people on IVF message boards have talked about with the down regging (first stage that I'm just coming to the end of) so haven't been entirely chirpy - and look like death warmed up! Unfortunately I got a rather short haircut just before the symptoms kicked in as well so I look like I'm recovering from something terrible at the moment. Am visiting my nephew and trying not to scare him!

I'm really identifying with the awkwardness over when people ask about children. It depends on how well I know them and how I feel as to whether I say 'Not yet' or just try to say 'no' in a firm but cheerful way! I think 'definitely not' would be a bit disingenuous at this stage! Mind you, I felt like I'd had it easy when my sister was talking about a friend of hers who is a really high-flying fund manager in the City - apparently she told some of her clients that she was getting married and they started asking her, immediately, about when she was going to have kids and who would manage their funds when she did. Absolutely outrageous - and she happens not to want kids. If her employer had said something like this, of course they'd be liable for all sorts of legal action but of course she can't do anything about her clients (except smile sweetly and reassure them). Makes me glad that my work are basically very supportive (just unfortunately about 90 miles away from where I live...).

Do think that is absolutely terrible, Seagreen - surprised you didn't wallop him right there and then, sanctimonious little twerp. That makes me feel pretty red and militantly child-free. It's the two mantras of the self-righteous parent (mercifully, as you say, very few and far between) - that those without children are a) not grown-up and b) as re. a post of confused's recently, selfish. Grrr. I've always thought the 'not grown up' thing was basically veiled jealousy - I as a parent have to do all these so-called grown-up things that are hard and dull and curb my desires, so I'll play down the attractiveness of the other condition. I have no doubt one does assume new responsibilities and grow in certain ways as a person with kids, and I think I will probably 'grow up' in lots of ways, but you can grow in other ways and through other experiences too. [OK, rant over!]

Wow, those are some swings, Amanda - I've never quite got to the stage of looking at car seats etc. but playing with my nephew has induced slight greenness (about time, some might say!).

OK, better go - head pounding again - hoping a shower will help. Hope you're all doing ok (ok there lq and YTD?). Any news on the house, confused? xx

It's been a funny few weeks really (possibly I've been spending too long on this thread), first there were the anti-baby articles that people linked to, which made me super red, then the sensible analysis of them on here, which made me a bit less red again, but then I read a thread about the silly cost of childcare (super red again), then managed to rationalise it and reminded myself that I actually could afford it (slightly less red again), got drunk on a night out and confessed feelings of redness to militant-anti-baby DH, then woke up next day panicked into a state of vibrant greenness! Which has since worn off a bit, but not so much that I didn't sneak into Mothercare yesterday and look at car seats and play pens... And so it goes on!

i mean, i like them - the same way as i like a nice painting- i like them for what they are, from a reasonable distance, but i don't feel the need to necessarily devote my time to them! they do grate on the nerves after a while.. i don't think i could spend say 7 days looking after a child without feeling the need to get away with a good book in a corner somewhere unless it was my own child (am guessing)!
i suppose one's own/ one's near and dear children evoke a better response. we're probably biologically wired that way..
fairly red right now as you can see!

so my general defence mechanism most times when people ask "and do you have kids" is "definitely not!"- that way, no one feels the need to feel bad for me/ lecture me/ feel ill at ease. they can move on, because they know i'm v comfortable with my childless situation!
though i probably come across as a child hater to some people.. which, come to think of it, i don't really LIKE children as a whole all that much.. i'm just waiting to have one of my own, is all!

I very rarely get asked that to be honest, someone I was speaking to on the telephone the other day asked me "do you have any children yourself?" and I spontaneously laughed out loud as though the question was just ridiculous - and then I immediately thought "oh my god why am I laughing? That's a perfectly reasonable question! This woman must think I'm mental/hate children!"

So apparently, subconsciously, I don't even think of myself as someone who might have a child!

Confused, I am sure that from the agent?s point of view this lady lays golden eggs!
Oddy, welcome!
All- what is with the general attitude some people have- the conversation goes as follows: ?So, do you have kids?? (from a 27 year old man ? probably irritating colleague type- whose hapless wife has popped out one or two already).
You say ?No? with a smile, probably pop in a ?not yet? if your clock is ticking particularly loudly that day and you don?t want to sound like your ovaries have given up.
?Ohhhh? (conveying a world of meaning) rather than a cheerful ?oh ok? with a smile. Once I even got a ?Ohh, you guys haven?t grown up yet then? (with patronising smile) from a chap I hardly knew, the first time I met him. WTF !! Excuse me!!! If growing up means acquiring a halo of sanctimoniousness then I really don?t want to grow up. I?ll take all sorts of sh*t from the people who know me or care about me, but to be talked at by some random pipsqueak who thinks he?s got the Holy Grail because he has a child is too much. To be fair, it?s not right to presume that everyone who has kids and asks you whether you do, is being patronising. In fact, most aren?t. And it?s true that parenting is challenging and life changing and a learning experience.
But that small halo-ed minority get my goat.

Confused I suppose that whenever you have a situation where one or other partner seriously considers not having children at all, that must prompt conversations that the majority of couples avoid because they are both fully on board and have no need to discuss the practical implications to the nth degree. So thrashing out an agreement could turn out to be a positive. At least you have more realistic expectations.

Oddy you seem to have redefined dithering! I'm not saying you shouldn't, and I know you're not the only ditherer in this thread who's "trying" - I'm just tickled by the idea of dithering and TTC at the same time. No doubt I'll be dithering whilst TTC with the best of them, once my turn comes! lol.

I'd say welcome to the thread, but it's not my thread - so that would be like saying "make yourself at home" to another guest in someone elses house... pours wine and offers a glass instead

Hi everyone,

Couldn't post last night as the broadband wasn't working but thought I'd drop in this morning before work and say thanks for letting me join your gang . Just so you're all up to speed, I'll give you a potted history of where I am at the moment...that sounded a bit Dragons Den didn't it, anyway...

... I spent all my teens and 20's having no interest in kids whatsoever as I found raving and general debauchery much more to my taste. Then my younger sister had a baby last year (shock, horror although she IS 31!) which sent me into an emotional tailspin and started my broody-o-meter madly ticking. Me and DP then had a serious grown up discussion about children and decided that I'd have my coil removed and we'd see what happened.

At this point I though "sh*t" and put off having my coil removed until I absolutely had to. Broody-o-meter cranked up again as I thought I'd conceive straight away (I couldn't get away with anything in the past, but that's another story) but I spent the 1st half of the 1st month excited about being pregnant and then the 2nd half terrified that I was. This pattern has continued in month 2 (and 3, despite madly symptom spotting I got my period this morning). I'm not particularly sad or anything I just mainly think I can have a bottle glass of wine tonight while looking at holiday brochures which right now seems infinitely preferable to having a glass of plain water and worrying about if Greenpeace would tow me back out to see if I lay on the beach in 3 months. TBH we're rather casual about this TTC business though, no charts, thermometers, cervix fiddling or "come home I'm ovulating" phone calls to DP's work...yet .

So that's where I am at the moment. I think I qualify as a fully paid up member of ditherers united as I'm still dithering while half-heartedly TTC. If I could make any kind of decision I believe I would be dangerous

Oddy x

Now that is a tricky one.

If your DH has never wanted children but ends up with them anyway, they are still, whether he wanted them or not, both of yours. If he is that against the idea of parenthood in an ideal world you would have either laid your cards out and discussed it till blue in the face before TTC or he would have taken matters into his own hands and worn a johnny or had the snip!

However, I think (but may be talking our my arse) that the mother tends to do far more of the chores / make more of the sacrifices and so on anyway out of the two parents. On a brighter note, a lot of the men who I've seen become fathers have been utterly smitten once the babies have arrived.

I also wonder if you would have to negotiate when you become parents regardless of whether you both wanted children or not, maybe you negotiate more if he didn't want them...?

Speaking of DHs being rubbish, girls, I read an AIBU thread this morning about family income and who pays for what. There were a lot of militant mom types shouting about joint income and "it's his kid too" and suggesting the OP leave her DP. I didn't say anything but I was thinking that my DH definitely doesn't want children, but will probably give in eventually if I do. But I'm sure he will see them as my responsibility and expect me to be the one to make the sacrifices if he does give in, and part of me thinks that wouldn't be so unreasonable of him. It's a different matter if you both want kids and you don't have to negotiate. What do you guys think?

Hi there, Oddy

you're definitely in the right place - we're all (or almost all) having these feelings (I'm still having them and am currently going through IVF, if you haven't read back on the thread - which is particularly bananas indecisive!).

34 feels quite young to me (I'm just about to turn 38), don't worry. Mind you, I haven't had much luck (if that's what it is...) at conceiving so obviously not as young as I think I am!

Presumably you are ok with the idea of a baby, or you wouldn't be trying or even 'trying'? Don't be railroaded into it, will you - it's all very well for your DP (and his mum!) but he'll end up doing a fraction of the work you will if you do have a baby. I complain about my DH's lack of enthuasiasm for kids, but I think I might feel even worse in a way if he was putting loads of pressure on me to do it. I'm not saying that's what's happening with you, obviously - I'm sure it's not - but I just know some people who get this from their partners and then the same partners are really rubbish when the child comes along. (At least I know my DH will probably be rubbish and have - after a fashion - accepted this! )

Anyway, I'm sure that's not the issue. Good luck with deciding and/or succeeding, whichever comes first!