To TTC or not to TTC, that is the question... as Hamlet sort of said about something else entirely

Oh, YTD, that wedding sounds so similar to lots of evenings we have (though I'm having a small spell of sobriety at the moment - most unusual!) and all the upsides and downsides of not being pregnant that I regularly experience (not that we are at weddings or parties every weekend, I hasten to add!). But very familiar, nonetheless.

Welcome to Suerock and KC11 - this is a lovely thread, I think you'll find! Don't apologize for drunken and rambling post, Suerock - how do you think most of us end up on here! Very very best of luck with the ICSI, KC11 - really hope it works out this time (mixed blessing as it will be, no doubt!).

It's funny, you are all feeling the biological clock tick away, but just to reassure you, you're all youngsters compared to me (at 37). There feels a huge difference from this end of things between 35 and 37! (Let alone 32 and other such youthfulness!) Not that I'm saying you shouldn't be feeling these sort of things, but just to say even well beyond 35 one can still be feeling pretty ambivalent (and having enough fun to worry about jeopardizing it, happily!). And don't panic. Working in an academic context I seem to know countless older mothers, quite a few 40+ when they conceive - not to recommend it, exactly, but it is certainly possible.

Had sister and nephew here at the weekend (along with a load of other family) - he's still not a great sleeper, as the whole household can attest , but he is so gorgeous now (and sister much more cheerful) that it didn't dim my green light (or muddy it, to use Suerock's metaphor!) - quite the opposite. Still can't get DH to come to the IVF appointment with me, which isn't exactly a good sign or auspicious start, so a bit glum about that, but feeling quite positive in general at the moment so will just get as far as I can without him, as it were, and see what happens!

Waves to HP, Confused and everyone else (Paws in the ether somewhere!).

Hello. sorry to gate crash. I can sympathise with all of you. I am 35 and have been trying to conceive for four and a half years. Let me tell you that many months of hoping and then being disappointed is not nice. But I am going through my second cycle of IVF at the moment and can tell you that i've got doubts about how i'll feel if i actually get pregnant. I would recommend a book called "so you've decided you want a baby now what?" (try Amazon). You will find a lot of advice in there about diet and liefstyle and general stuff. I must have read if cover to cover half a dozen times. It really helps you process the uncertain thoughts. I would avdise any woman over 27 who thinks she wants a family to start pretty soon. For medical reasons I had to wait as I had a gynae problem that required surgery. It came from nowhere at the exact time that I and DH decided I would come off the pill. So I got that all sorted and as bad luck would have it I have not fallen pregnant but have unexplained infertility, which means just that. All the tests have shown nothing wrong. The ony thing that has gone against us is that my DH has a slightly wavering sperm count. So we're actually having ICSI instead of IVF.

I guess what i'm trying to say is i thoughf for a long time about whether I was mentally ready and I still have doubts now. What i do know for certain is that I want to have a child (or poss two) so that they can come visit me in my older years and delight me with stories etc and keep me company. I don't want to be an elderly lady with no children or grandchildren. If my mum and dad could have and cope with two kids then i'm sure i can do it too (given the chance!)

Good luck with the decision making.

I'm so glad I found this thread - I thought I was the only person in the world swearing blind that I either don't want kids, or am indifferent to kids, but in reality I spend hours agonising over it in private!

OK, burying this in the middle of a post and whispering - yes HP, I am a fellow research scientist, though not sufficiently similar that I think we have a mutual set of alpha-male, ambitious colleagues surfing MN, looking for incriminating evidence to prove that we are not as committed to our jobs as we make out The crazy thing is, that getting pregnant would not be career suicide, though I can already imagine the conversation if I ever have to tell the boss that I'm up the duff. Yep, I'd have to give up practical work once I got so huge I couldn't fit in a lab coat and couldn't stand all day (shudder), yes, I'd have some time off looking after the resulting screaming infant but it would not necessarily be the end of my career in my eyes. But anyway.

The stubborn streak which means liking not conforming sounds all too familiar! Where would I be if I'd caved in to peer pressure I wonder? (Probably not on MN, dithering, I suspect.)

I think my babyometer is brown - doesn't know whether it's red or green or amber....

Evening ladies,

Wow, loads of green here in the past few days, I?m impressed! Can really relate to the comments from Suerock about your public persona. I was always fairly anti-child (and I still don?t get massively excited about children in general) in my 20s. In fact, I have a couple of bets on with friends from college that I won?t ever have children cos ?I?m a career woman, I am!?
Publically I am semi ?out?, as I did do a fair amount of dithering in real life. But I talked through my ?should I, shouldn?t I baby confusion with a couple of older women who I work with (I work in IT in the NHS ? so not too male dominated and a good maternity policy, it?s not a dangerous place to publically fertile!) who had both decided / life decided for them to not have kids. They both wouldn?t change anything in their lives and were very good at arguing the advantages of remaining childless, but are both conscious of feeling (occasionally) that they might have missed out on something worthwhile. To most people who ask (and I find that increasingly they do, and quite directly!), my official stance is that I am not particularly bothered either way, and there are lot of other things I would like to get done first. I tend to be more open with people I don?t know as well, and have not discussed at all with my (otherwise very close) family, except to tell my mum (when questioned directly) that I am happy to mother nature decide. I think that?s because if all my Aunties knew, they?d start knitting and would be actively looking forward to a baby, whereas I am still not at all sure if it?s all such a good idea, and don?t want it to be made real in that way. I am also genuinely concerned that we might not have fully functioning reproductive plumbing, and I don?t want to be carrying the weight of others peoples? expectation as well as my own.

Tonight I think I?m a bit amber. I was at a wedding this weekend that was full of pregnant women. On a table with two of them ? the upside was plenty of extra wine and champagne, downside was the sense of failure and irresponsibility at

a) having an empty womb

b) drinking egg-impeding quantities of bucks fizz and chardonnay and falling into bed in worn out drunken stupor, rather than cherishing fledgling fertility with folic acid and orange juice and maintaining sufficient sobriety to lure pissed DH into imparting seed at (apparently) most fertile day of the month.

But, on the upside, I did get to eat, drink and be merry. I didn?t have to avoid the prawns and stay off the booze, and we could stay in bed till checking out time and not have to worry about getting home to collect the kids. And that is pretty good; it?s a degree of freedom not to be squandered lightly. Maybe I actually want to carry on being the one who hasn?t conformed?

Well, having stormed the board in blaze of green, I seem to be retreating back to the red ground as the green lights switch on elsewhere (Levi and Confused, thrilling news from you both, I know there?s no such thing as a final decision here, but it?s great that you are stepping up a gear in the drive to conceive). I'm thinking maybe I'm just succoming to some sort of reproductive peer pressure and actually, all the really good reasons for not having kids feel reall good at the moment. Not even the thought of little white vests can break that resolve...

Hello all and welcome to Suerock!
No, it's not all the shagging that's prolonged my absence but, instead, the arrival of my mother and her dog (dog staying with us for a fortnight while she's on holiday.) I think it would be worse my mother spotting me on mumsnet than it would DH - saying that, DH has been on bloody mumsnet too (but not to see my posts - shudder - we were, ahem, looking at the conception stuff, not the chatroom conception stuff either.

So... A very good point has been brought up by Suerock that I can relate to (and it seems HP can too) entirely - the perception of friends of family of our intentions, or lack of, to have a family. As you may have got the gist of, I LOVE my animals and have always been regarded as more of an animal enthusiast than a baby one, despite being notably (even if I do say so myself) good with children. In fact, blowing my own trumpet here I realise, someone recently assumed I worked with them after seeing me with her daughter. However, I find the whole birthy business very squeamish (who in their right mind doesn't...?!) as well as occasionally finding heavily pregnant women (stretched stomach, that kind of thing) quite shudder inducing too. I love my animals (two cats, one dog) and, while I am good with kids, I have always maintained I don't want to have them myself. This has become such a part of my 'character' that it is almost a pull to change my mind and do the opposite. I have also got very annoyed recently at someone at my old job who couldn't seem to understand why I 'didn't want a baby' and then, albeit in a friendly way, asked me if I didn't think it was 'selfish.' Needless to say, this pissed me off - there is nothing 'selfish' about deciding NOT to bring another person onto this already chronically overcrowded planet etc etc, which I duly said. I also had a friend, someone I know really well and like a lot, going on at me recently about how she was worried I was 'going to have nothing but dogs and cats and get to 60 and regret it.' I got annoyed at this too - for all the same reasons and gave the same line of arguments (sure you can guess.) Now, I have a small stubborn streak that likes being the one who hasn't 'conformed.' Does this make sense? I find the little box you have to type your messages in on MN not very easy - you keep having to move the whatsit up and down to see what you've read and can only see it properly when it's been posted (and then it's too late!)

Cure for childhood cancer? [whisper - I dont like to give too much away on MN in case my co-workers suss me out so I understand if you dont answer, but are you a fellow researcher? Im in medical research, a post doc]. I understand the pressure of being in a male dominated field, and in my field of work (in case it isnt the same as yours, after all) is full of crusty male professors or agressive medic types who dont like to employ women in their 20s/30s in case they go off on maternity leave and leave the grant high and dry. Or stop working 12 hour days.

And you are not alone in the heart/head debate: the nagging feeling of biology kicking in (not to mention the little tiny white baby vests) despite all the doubts, I guess that feeling is why most of us on here are in fact dithering, rather than confidently saying 'Im not having children, its not for me, and Im happy with that'.

Maybe you are right, maybe people think we arent planning a family. My MIL keeps dropping hints but no-one else has even mentioned it once to me, ever. I guess I dont give off maternal vibes, so people think Im a career girl with no interest in babies. I havent corrected them, if they are thinking that.

'Tendency to analysis and consideration' is me all over. My head says that I don't have to be a mother - I could go off and be a teacher or a Brownie leader or raise money for children's charities or donate money to educational causes or even find a cure for childhood cancer (not as far-fetched as it sounds). And relatives of mine have kids so my genes won't be completely lost. So the Head usually wins. But increasingly often this little illogical Heart gremlin starts jumping up and down and telling me that I want a baby of my own. Tell me I'm not alone in this!

Actually, I don't know why I should feel I have to keep the whole baby thing secret in RL. At work - sure. I work in a male-dominated field and saying I was trying for a baby would be career suicide. But I suppose keeping it secret from friends and family is a reaction to people saying 'Oh, but you must know whether or not you want a baby...' Interestingly, HP, I think quite a few people have assumed we aren't trying because we've been married for so long with no infant to show for it, so perhaps you'll find people have made the same assumption about you?

Hi Suerock, and welcome, of course you can join us. Not that many people would be queuing up to be part of the indecisive/dithery/frankly scared thread! But its good to have you here, anyway!!

We all seem to have so much in common - post-30, tendancy to analysis and consideration, enjoyment of current lives, awareness of the cackling of M. Nature and her evil minions (Ovary and Uterus). But even so, some of the lovely ladies on this thread do seem to be TTC. And of course P&C drops by to occasionally tweak our reproductive glands.

Speaking of which, where on earth has Confused gone? You cant drop a post saying 'oh, we've decided to go for it GREEN ALERT' and then disappear with no further info. Cough up, girly! Or is all the sex making typing impossible.....

One particular thing Suerock said has struck a chord with me - the bit about hiding any desire to procreate from people in RL. Thats so true for me as well, and in my case I hid it from DH, or rather repressed it, for so long Im sure thats part of the reason for the head-mess I find myself in. And Im so sensitive about the subject that on-one in RL knows Im even considering it, let alone any of my....issues. But I guess at age 32 and married for 100 years, most people are probably assuming we are at least trying.

Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

Hi,

Can I join you? Been reading your thread from the start and recognise a lot of what you all say! But I can't usually get on the computer long enough to compose posts.

For us it's less a problem of whether to go for it or not in theory, and more a case that we are both just too tired all the time to be bothered trying. Most of the time I don't really care and look at my life now, and think that I'd be happy with another 50 years like this. But then I suddenly get an extraordinary wash of emotion and the idea of never having children makes me wonder what on earth I'm bothering with anything else for. So I dither over whether to try and drum up some interest in procreation from DH, who would probably be quite happy to find I was pregnant, but equally happy if I wasn't. The thing is, I'm nearly 35 so time isn't on my side.

Oh, and the other thing is that I'm so used to keeping the wanting kids thing hidden at work and from family and friends, that it almost seems indecent to actively try.....

Long rambling alcohol-induced first post - sorry!

Hey, no-one is tedious on here!

Cant write much, DH has cooked me a lovely meal (with dessert) so are spending the evening in front of the TV with good food!

Take care all. Colour updates appreciated!!

Yes, I did. Sorry to be tedious! Lack of sleep.

Have recovered a bit from cute baby photo hysteria, rest assured, HP, in part because I'm reading a 1960s novel about women in traditional Indian society getting right royally scuppered by unwanted pregnancy, childbearing, too many children etc. (OK, the last not really a danger!) And just general appreciation of my life as it is. But still investigating IVF.

It's such a tricky one (to state the bleeding obvious). I would say, though, that while I would never want to advise one way or the other (and am in no position to, obviously), I am probably a living example of the possible benefits of getting on with it as we've been trying for so long without success (4 years, and I'm 37, if you didn't get that far in old posts, YTD - or did I just say that in the last post or two?!), and despite being ambivalent about it that is sometimes hard. And makes IVF the best route, which will definitely not be fun, whether or not it has a happy outcome. But maybe I'll hate it if I get what I wish for, so who knows...

Oh. My. God.

I turn my back for two minutes......

I'm with you on the green! Even more so as just had chat with DH and we're going to, ahem, GET GOING!
Yikes!

All a bit surreal at the moment (and we are stone cold sober in case you were wondering!)

Oh, bloody hell, just seen the most amazing pictures (forwarded by DH, ironically) of friends' tiny baby boy, and both of the friends looking spaced out but also utterly blissed out in his first few days. So GREEN I can't think straight. That's really done it now. Feel quite tearful. The only antidote will be the terrible birthing stories but somehow I don't want to spoil the buzz (or whatever it is trendy drug-taking folk say...).

If we get a BFP on here then we can over- analyse how bloody terrifying it is!!!

Evening all,
HP - yes, they are cutting me off soon (the bastards.) However, have been reading up on it and it seems as if they don't HAVE to, but some GP's or whatever choose too (like they can even do with patients who are just over 35.) I did go to have a coil fitted but they couldn't - it was horrendous too - as that would have been a good option. Lastly, HP, I'm afraid kittens are nothing like babies. How many babies have you seen trying to run up curtains? Hmm?

I second YTD on the anecdotal evidence that even the most reluctant father melts when they see the fruit of their loins (ugh, what a phrase!) Almost all but one dad I know has, and the other one was semi-indifferent until the baby developed more of a personality and then he turned into a gooey mush.

Feel a bit dumb about the comments I previously posted about seeing the nurse. You are all right, of course they're not going to hold me at gunpoint. I think I just got a bit weirded out by it as it seems very much like The Next Step (shudder!) which doesn't quite fit in with the dithering.

As there are a few of us actively trying, and a few in betweeners, out of us group of ditherers I do hope we get a BFP on here! We'll have to start another thread then and overanalyse something else...

Confused if it makes you feel any better, you're supposed to take folic acid for at least 3 months before starting TTC anyway (I've started 12 months after NPP, maybe I'm not doing this right? ) so if you're following the rules, you shouldn't be TTC straight away once you've had this appointment.

On the subject of apathetic or unenthusiastic partners, maybe we're sometimes guilty of over analsying. After all, we are swaying between should I or shouldn't I, and we have huge hormormal impulses veering us towards should! Blokes don't have any of this and are generally a bit more focused on all the problems.

I'm very lucky, my DH is pretty supportive. He's gone from "well if that's what you want to do, it wouldn't be a disaster" to being almost keen. I started a new job in August and was planning to go back on the pill cos I thought it would be unfair to my new employer if I got pregnant too soon after starting, by DH didn't want me to. He reasoned that we are old and crinkly and appear to be having problems conceiving, we don't want to add any more barriers to the ones that are naturally there. I reasoned that meant he was keen on having kids!!

I agree that the whole "its your project not mine" attitude can be really upsetting, especially when you're not sure yourself and want someone there to support you in the whole scarey adventure. But I have lots of completely unscienfic anecdotal evidence that suggests that even the most unenthusiastic would be dad's are completed besotted (and pretty damn pleased with themselves!) when they meet the little person that they are half responsible for. I suppose its like much of this whole baby malarky, you just have to go with your gut instinct and trust that when you get there, you miraculously be given the resources you need to cope. Bloody difficult to do when we spend the rest of our lives trying to make reasonable decisions based on facts and good sense!

Oh, HP, so sorry to hear about the row. I really sympathize - it's almost the only source of tension with us (too) these days and it's just horrible at times. The fact that he (yours) says he will be supportive, despite his actions not always backing this up, is a big deal - so many men would never say this in a million years. And I keep trotting out all the old assurances (to myself as much as anyone) that they do get on board, usually cheerfully, when it's a reality, and are almost always besotted. But it makes it very difficult when we too have mixed feelings.

To echo YTD, it's perfectly reasonable to get the folic acid, and even have the tests, without this meaning you have to start trying immediately, Confused - it might be good to be completely prepared, and then to see how you feel, which might tell you something. It wouldn't hurt, anyway. But absolutely your prerogative to decide not to, or not to right now.

Well, have booked appointment with fertility doc to talk about IVF. Have also given up alcohol for a month (possibly more) - don't think this will have miraculous results, but have had quite a boozy time over last fortnight or so, so it isn't a bad plan anyway, TTC or not. So it looks like I'm back to green, at least in deeds if not - consistently - in spirit. But 37 and 4 years of trying, albeit rather lacklustrely (is that a word?!) to start with - I think it's now or never. Gulp. (Actually, I say 'now', but even if we put ourselves onto the IVF waiting list, it will probably be months long so I shouldn't get too excited/scared!)

I agree, having the appointment is info-gathering and exploration of options. And also for horse pill sized folic acid, which it certainly wont hurt to take if the pill avenue is running out. Are they cutting you off soon, the bastards?

I was thinking, we have some actual people actually TTC actual babies on this thread - could it be that we get a BFP on here? That would be very cool.

I feel a bit better today - thanks so much for the kind words and ears to bend. You are so right, Confused, I think the baby situation is very volitile and is no-where close to be being sorted out. I just dont believe him when he says that he will be 100% behind me (eek!) if I want to go for it. The snitty comments and total lack of interest at all other times tell me otherwise. It makes me feel so uncomfortable that I darent listen out for Mother Nature.

Regards having pets. We have cats and we both love 'em, they are part of our little family. I tried to tell him a baby is a lot like a kitten, but he didnt quite believe me!

Good way of putting it YTD! I shall use those exact words next week!

Hi HP, thanks for the welcome, its nice to be here. Sorry to hear things have been a bit pants for you this weekend.

Confused, I don't think that the appointment means you have to go ahead and start TTC. Your medical condition means you have to do a bit more up front preparation. All you're doing is making sure you are equipped to respond when Mother nature's yelling gets too loud to ignore.

Hi HP and thanks for the birthday wishes. The weekend was top, although weird going without the dog - felt like we were missing something.

The folic acid appt is a week Thursday. Feel a bit ridiculous as the nurse probably expects a bit mote commitment and, really, I don't want to go for the pre natal counselling and so on, I just really want the folic acid just in case! She wants me and DH to go to the hospital, have lots of tests (me, not DH) and be talked through all the ins and outs of a 'diabetic pregnancy.' This, for a ditherer like me, is waaaay too serious! Being diabetic doesn't bother me at all, apart from when people confuse Type 2 (ie the one linked with unhealthy lifestyle and / or obesity), but it sure is with this. I think it makes it all so real and, stupid as it sounds, as if we now have to go ahead with it if we go for the tests etc. So, I am going to tell the nurse all this a week Thursday and see what happens. I have no idea what she'd say or suggest but am also hoping that, as I am fit healthy and well controlled, I don't need the hospital appt - FINGERS CROSSED.

Sorry to hear about the big row HP. I am starting to get the impression that this baby situation is potentially very volatile (say, a dormant volcano?) and needs to be sorted before it gets worse. To use your phrase, the yelling of mother nature is hard to ignore and it would be better to have some kind of a plan, even if it's a little vague, to help with things. I hope things can move forward soon and don't fester - feel free to vent any timee (though can't promise I'll be much help!)

PS. And C, happy birthday for Friday - hope it was a good one in your tipi, sounds great!

Wow. Lots of posts! Welcome, YTD, great to have you here. A couple of people are posting on our indecisive thread while TTC, so you arent alone! In fact, it seems we have all felt better knowing we arent the only ones struggling with this decision. The yelling of Mother Nature vs. the sneaky pleasures of a childfree life....its a difficult one alright.

Hi to all. And the invocation worked, I see P&C has been visiting. Cripes. The bit about the tiny baby snuggling into DHs chest? Ohhhhhhhhhhh.

Which brings me onto the reason for my absense...huge row with DH. Started off pretty much about nothing, then kinda escalated. I feel so frustrated at the moment, have no idea where we are going or what the future holds, and he never gives any of it a second thought. And over the weekend there was another 'childcare costs are obsene and ridiculous' comment. Anyway, you dont want to listen to my problems, but safe to say, am on red red red.

Confused - was your appointment for the mahusive folic acid today?