To TTC or not to TTC, that is the question... as Hamlet sort of said about something else entirely

HP - whoopee! This is indeed progress! Lines of communication are becoming more open I suspect. Am delighted - and keep up the good work
I agree with YTD too that the occassional mention of baby / child related things is a good idea. Not too obvious, so it is indeed 'non-threatening' and maybe will start to work on his mindset in a drip feed fashion.

Yes, we found the car keys, well DH did when I was wicked and cruel and got him up (at 2.30pm) and said it was his turn to look. He thankfully found them (under some weeds in the garden.) Thank god for that! That could have been one hell of an expensive mistake!

We just got back from some Pizza and I have to say the experience has put me more in the mid-Ambers. We went to Planet Pizza and the place was full of families with children, the oldest of whom would have been around 6 (most were 3ish if not a bit younger.) The children, and bear in mind we got there just before 7, were sreaming and yelling at one another over the table football - not tantrums, just yelling with excitement, and it was bloody loud. Too bloody loud! Some were also crawling about under the tables and a few running about chasing one another. Now, as we all must surely know, I am not anti-children but I do not think they should be allowed to run about shrieking etc when out in a restaurant. Yes, the place is very family friendly but not everyone has a child / toddler and the level of noise they were making was hard to ignore. Maybe this is the kind of thing I would change my mind 100% on if / when we have some but I do hope not! I recall a similar incident on New Years day - the only pub we could find open was full of families and their young children, the older one's of whom were chasing one another about or even using their new scooters. That annoyed me even more as IT'S A PUB NOT A CRECHE! However, if I was limited to only a couple of places where I could take my DC would I too be one of those parents? I'd like to think not there too but I grudgingly suppose we ought to keep an open mind...? Just because there are a lot of people letting their children do that does it mean that you too can do the same and it not matter...?

Am interested to hear views. Hmmm, I may even start my very own Am I Being Unreasonable Thread on the matter and see what some mum's (as opposed to fellow ditherers) would say...

Hi HP, great news on the communnications progress. Not sure what your Stage 1 plan is, but I'd reccommend occasional casual remarks about the possibility of having children and associated issues, so he can get accustomed to the idea in a non-threatening way!

Chances are you may never get to total agreement from DH, or permanent green on your part. I think this is the sort of decision where the 80 /20 rule has to apply!

But don't pay any attention to me, cos I'm a bit biased at the moment. DH and I have just been God-parenting at a friend's child's Christening and I'm hugely green at the moment.

PS: Confused - did you find the car keys?

UPDATE:

Have spent the last hour looking up nurseries in my local area, and casually discussing the locations and costs with DH. I didnt make a big deal about it, just started telling him what I was finding out. This was in the spirit of mine and Confused's Stage 1 plan from some time ago.

For those that dont know my situation with DH, this is progress! No tears, no yelling, no recriminations. He did nearly faint at the most expensive one, but we had a laugh about it. (Incidently, damn, nurseries are expensive, especially on a pathetic scientist salary!).

Now, Im certainly no further towards green in my own head, but this is a step forward in communication (so had to share!).

Morning!

I think that MN's great for being able to brain dump more openly than you would in real life. Although am thinking perhaps ought to be a bit more obtuse sometimes as anyone reading this who knew me, would probably guess immediately who I was! Ooops!

Yes, guess I am still on Green, although it's not a forefront of my mind at the moment.

Got to go as DH (currently in bed with hangover) managed to lose the car key - my mum's car, she's on holiday for 2 weeks - so I need to try and find it (no sucess) or see how much it's going to be for another one cutting - gulp!

Morning All,

Have nipped on while DH has nipped out, for some illicit MN-ing!

I really just wanted to be a bit soft (maybe Im a bit pre-fake menstrual? TMI?) and say 'thanks' to everyone, and that Im really really grateful for being able to 'talk' to you all about all this stuff. You all know more about whats going on in my head than anyone else in RL!

Im thinking a lot about what everyone is saying and am processing it.

Any greens today? Are you still 'GREEN' Confused? Im a reddy-ambery-green (ha!).

Hope you are all having a great weekend in the lovely Autumnal weather.

HP

Thankyou, notjustanumber, for your wise words. I would love to think that in a few years' time I could look back so positively at what I have lost and what I have gained in having children. Obviously my babyometer is veering towards green.

And I can empathise in the sadness and anger in hearing that friends are pregnant. I hate myself when the first thing I think about when hearing their good news is my jealous self, and how I wish I could have made the decision they made.

When I look into the future, I can sometimes see myself with a child of 6-ish to 8-ish, but it's very distant and blurred. But I can never see myself with a baby, and I can't help thinking that it's something that apathy will mean just never happens.

Hi Honey, I really feel for you. I think as women in our society, we are supposed to want kids, and crave pregnancy and then love being a mum. I felt horrendously alone being usure about it, and then being pregnant and being depressed about it. I had some quite bad feelings, wishing for miscarriage etc, that I found hard to admit to anyone, I felt so awful. Having spoken to other people since, I dont think these feelings are that uncommon. I love mumsnet are in that you can be honest about these feelings, I wish I'd known about it then!

If it helps, it took me a year to get used to being a parent, in that I had to adjust my expectations of what I could achieve for myself and adjust to early mornings, extra work involved etc. I loved my baby but craved "time off" occasionally, though I dont feel that now as although the babies are lovely you get a bit more back as they get older.

But once you have adapted, the early mornings are great, you have much more time in the day to do stuff and little children are very willing hangers on when you walk, cook, shop, do housework etc. I feel my weekends are much better used and more fulfilling now, most of the time. The things I do with my time have changed, but only a bit. I love to cook, walk and cycle, I just have hangers-on now I actually dont miss lie ins but then I am a busy person and I have learnt that I only need 6-7 hours a night max.

Being a parent has made me more confident, more assertive, more empathetic, better at multitasking, timekeeping, organizing. I am a better employee as a result.(I work PT) My husband and I have learnt to deal with conflict much better, and though we have lost out on "us" time, the satisfaction of being parents "together" and a family makes up for it right now.

I still have hobbies though they take a back seat when the babies are very small but if you are determined you can get stuff done by involving the children and being organised. There is a bit of a "mummy guilt" culture and if you dont get involved in that it helps. Because I never really wanted children, they are not the purpose of my whole existence and they are independent beings in my their own right. I'm not explaining it very well but my theory is if you have no agenda in having a child (ie needing to have unconditional love from someone, whatever), then all the better for both of you, as the things that you get from eachother are a bonus.

I'm sure you will find happiness either way, in a way its good sign you are so unsure, you are not under any illusions about the nature of parenthood, and you are currently filling your life with things you enjoy. Counter-intuitively, I think this is almost the best time to have a child

The best of luck to you

I can't bear this little box to type in - esp if typing a longish post!
I meant to say 'all the MORE amazing' and 'spend LESS on visits to the pub!'

notjustanumber thank you! I too have gone wobbly over my cornflakes! What has happened to you is just what I hope will also happen to the rest of us too. I guess at least we have nature and instinct on our side! It was also great to know that you had an 'accident' and came out feeling this way. Also, to write all that while looking after two children under three (instead of being frazzled!) makes it all the amazing!

YTD - I agree with HP, it's too early to tell. Isn't it a bugger though! Well, it is if patience isn't one of your strong points like me!

HP - I think you may have hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the number of scientists on this thread and their overthinking. True, I too can over-anaylse but if you do it for a living too... Also, reading between the lines, and sorry if this sounds blunt, I think you do want to, but need it to be the joint decision of both you and your DH. I guess that being someone whose head rules rather than their heart, (a quality that wouldn't go amiss in myself sometimes!), you can think of 101 reasons not to go for it, but have the constant niggle in the background that really you do want to. I also think (well, bloody hope!) that once you have taken the plunge, the other things (eg money) will still be manageable, even if you don't have as much as you used to (but hey, you'll spend on visits to the pub!)

I know I have gone from dithering to full on wanting to largely due to DH. He said, last week (or so) that he did want to and then talked about why. It was the pill forgetting tipi weekend that prompted it, and it kind of forced our hand and got us thinking aobut it in a less hypothetical way. Instead of worrying about the cash, time, schools, lie in's blah blah blah, we instead focussed on whether we really wanted this and found we did. When we got married (2 years ago) we were both very much of the mindset that we didn't want any (the thought left me cold, despite thinking other little one's were lovely it did nothing to make us want to start having our own) but this seems to have changed in the last 6 months (christ, it's only six months!) When I was at uni I knew a few people who had had children young and while they coped brilliantly a few had said to me that if they knew what they knew now, they wouldn't have had any. This had stuck with me until very recently - however, now I think that I am old enough to have done the non-child friendly things I wanted, don't have the same urge to go out all the time and now feel as if I need to move on. Admittedly, a lot of my friends (one couple have been together over 18 years before they decided to) have them now, which does make a difference (baaa!) as I would hate to be the one stuck at home when they are out, or leaving the party at 11 o'clock due to the babysitter.

Bloody hell. Thank you so much, notjustanumber for taking the time to describe your experience for us. Im a bit lost for words, because some of your words could have been written by a more eloquent me.....

"every time I knew someone that got pregnant I'd feel angry and sad. Angry that they knew what they wanted from life, and sad I lacked the conviction to be absolutely sure myself. The feelings were so murky I didnt share them with anyone, but I began to get increasingly stressed about "the issue" since I knew I had to deal with it sooner or later"

That is so exactly how I feel, its untrue. Im feeling mounting panic and frustration as why, WHY, I cant seem to make this decision. Im so stressed Im having headaches and stomach problems. I know that makes me sound a bit ridiculous but I cant help the way Im built. And then I get into a spiral of 'if Im this stressed now, maybe I should just forget it as clearly I have no clue about my own mind'. And dont get me started on DH....(Bless him)

Im so glad you have had such an amazing turn-around in your feelings after your 'happy accident', and you have made me go wobbly describing the connection between you and your little babies.

(As an aside, I think its a bit worrying how many of us 'overthinkers' are scientists. Read into that what you want.)

Confused - sucks about the UTI, hope its clearing up as we speak. Check you out with all the TTC stuff!

YTD - if there is one thing Ive picked up in my sad MN cruising, its not to test too early, as bankruptcy and frustration lie on that path! Although, what the hell do I know, I cant decide whether to have cornflakes or muesli for my breakfast....

Oooh, notjustanumber you've got me weeping into my cornflakes here! I've been hoping that this is what happens, that once you have produced the child you were never quite sure you wanted in the first place, Mother Nature does kick in and provide you with the resources to cope. I'm not especially maternal, and really don#'t want to lose my weekend lie ins (I note the time of your post with some dismay - i'm only out of bed cos i'm waiting for the plumber to arrive!) but I feel like I'm being propelled towards this by forces outside my control and I really hope that if I do get pregnant (no guarantee that it'll happen, we don't appear to be dripping with fertility at the moment) that I'll be transformed (or at least slightly adapted) in some way and be magically able to cope!

Quick update on my weekend testing plans, I'm due (I think, still not sure of my cycle length) next Saturday, so have decided this weekend would be way too early to tell. Going to leave it till next week.

The best way of describing what is like is what someone told me when i was pregnant. Its like a legitimate love affair. It is like that wonderful absorbing feeling you get when you first meet someone, but it doesnt go away.

disclaimer My two are under three. I might say something different once they are teenagers

Hi ladies,

Sorry for gatecrashing but your thread was on one of the most active yesterday so I came to have a look

I've read some of your posts and many of your thoughts sound very familiar to me, indeed. I have been with my husband for many years and we were so young when we met we never discussed kids, too busy having a good time ! I also work in science and am quite career orientated and I was never broody at all.

Then we got married when I was in my very early 30s. We were still having a good time, but every time I knew someone that got pregnant I'd feel angry and sad. Angry that they knew what they wanted from life, and sad I lacked the conviction to be absolutely sure myself. The feelings were so murky I didnt share them with anyone, but I began to get increasingly stressed about "the issue" since I knew I had to deal with it sooner or later !

We use persona, and on one occasion I told DH "this could be dodgy" and that was the sum total of our conversation. I thought nothing would happen as we'd been together many years and never had a scare. I got pregnant, and the next 8 months were some of the worst of my life, I have to be honest. I was terrified, and I kept thinking "Well if I'd have know it would be easy I'd have waited" and "I'm not ready for this" and "this is not what I want". Coming from a large family, I'd seen how much work small children were and I really didnt want it. I used to cry all the time that I couldnt have fun anymore, couldnt do what I wanted anymore, felt ill and tired.....

Then my baby was born and as soon as they out him on my chest I experienced a high that has never gone away. Afterwards I felt that a big secret had been kept from me, about how great it would feel. Waking in the night wasnt a chore, holding his small body to me in the dark was a pleasure! Changing his nappy wasnt repetitive and horrible, I wanted to make him feel secure and comfortable. Taking him out for walks and introducing him to the world was so exciting. Feeding him solid food for the first time and seeing him enjoy it was so rewarding. Seeing his love for me and giving him my love back was amazing. During the hard bits, I would think to myself "This is a challenge, and challenges were what you wanted in life".

So now I cant go out for meals when I want them, I cant watch what I want on TV. DH and I have a lot less time for eachother. My house is full of plastic and it is messy. I have not had a lie in for years. I have to structure the day around my kids. But I can take them down the park and have a picnic, I can go cycling with them. We bake together. We cuddle and read books. We plan trips out together. I watch them grow. I watch their faces when I surprise them. I comfort them when they need me.

I know how awful it is not to know the answer to the question of children, it feels so frustrating you cant be scientific about it. But I'd say dont let childbirth put you off, or the pregnancy. There is a risk to getting in the car in the morning, ro going skiiing, or getting on a plane or whatever. Giving birth can be difficult and traumatic and both of mine were difficult in their way, but it is the most amazing thing your body can do. And afterwards it is just such a tiny part of yours and their whole life.

I'm not trying to be evangelical about this, as I think children arent for everyone, and at least in my case, they have strained my other relationships as they are 100% more work with 100% less time than I had before. But I'm grateful every single day we had that lucky accident....

I wanted to tell you how I feel as I if you are tipping towards doing it, then you will probably love it. Frightening, hard work and challenging, yes, but the best all the same.

Hi all,
Just a quick post to say the feeling a bit weird this week is not a pregnancy but was the start of a urinary tract infection. I am not that suprised, although it is quite an anti-climax. Think DH seems more pissed off than me. Still, am using the past few weeks as good practice into being as virtuous as possible with regards to booze, healthy eating and so on and hopefully we'll have a different result soon...

I hope your weekends get off to better starts!

Good point - about the worst case scenario!

Have to keep this very short and go to as also at work!

It is good not to be apprehensive as you know the medics are more than willing to offer worst case scenario! Re the pump no as you say it doesn't detect highs and lows but does offer the ability to tweak things which isn't possible with insulin pens- something with the benefit of hindsight I would have found really useful in pregnancy.
Anyway, will not turn this into a thread about diabetes and go & get on with some work!
Good luck

Ps - No, not on insulin pump! As far as I knew, they deliver insulin to follow a pattern but cannot deliver more or less without being reprogrammed as they cannot detect low's or highs.

Oooh, Gingerroots - a real live Type 1 like me, hurrah! There are suprisingly few of us around so it's brilliant to be in touch with one. Thank you very much for taking the time to post (especially as you don't normally.) Maybe I should be more apprehensive, but I am not too concerned about the actual pregnancy aspepct. Maybe I am a bit slap dash about all this, but I feel confident enough with my control not to let it worry me too much. I also realise that I won't know if or how my body may react until I am actually pregnant - and no number of sessions at various clinics can predict that either. I guess I have also got in the back of my mind the thought that 100's of Type 1's must have 'accidents' all the time and, while it might be relatively tricky compared to others, all these women can't all have awful problems, miscarriages or whatever.
Hope this doesn't come across as someone who doesn't care much - I do care, but still find the medical approach both unrealistic and quite patrionising.

Have to go as typing this at work - will be back later

Hi
I don't usually post & haven't read the whole thread as not currently TTC. Anyway, I just wanted to add a couple of comments for confused re my experience of T1 diabetes & pregnancy. I have been T1 for 25 ish years. My DD was a happy "accident" & she is now 19mths.
All pregnancy experiences (diabetic or not) seem to differ enormously but I had great care & support from the diabetic team & my obstetricain which helped a lot. I worried the whole pregnancy that something would be "wrong" with my baby due to the diabetes but everything turned out well in the end. My diabetes has been relatively well controlled and from my experience this really helps. I had no diabetic complications prior to pregnancy but have subsequently had eye laser surgery. Do you already use an insulin pump as this may help. Sorry to ramble & good luck!

KC - really sorry to hear about the IVF Thinking of you.

Confused - bah to health professionals who have to tick boxes and treat everyone like they don't know their own bodies. Perhaps they see it as better to patronise a few people who have well-controlled medical conditions (like yourself) and catch all the people who aren't (like your Uncle Ken - not that I'm figuring he spent a lot of time getting pregnant ) than have people who need help slipping though the net. But it must have been frustrating for you.

HP - you can count me as not TTC. I delved into the carefully hidden box of baby related stuff the other day in a fit of enthusiasm for predicting ovulation to find that the kit I bought covertly ages ago had gone out of date, along with the folic acid. However, whoever mentioned eBay gave me an idea - if I ever get around to wanting another one, I won't have to try and buy it in Boots with the fear that I might bump into someone I know. Arrgghh. Why am I so paranoid?

Good luck to those of you testing soon - hope you get the answer you want, whatever that may be at the time!

Confused i think the nurse hasn't really been following the spirit of the guideline. All you need to do is You don't need counselling to decide whether you want to try for a baby - you've been doing that on here for ages! Admittedly, there is a lot of additional monitoring and potential medical intervention required, but there is no reason at all why that can't be established post conception, should you have struck lucky in the first month.

If you are taking folic acid, have good glycaemic control and you're BMI isn't through the roof (which at 10 stone, it can't be) then there can't be any reason for not pressing on. And the fact that you have been to see the nurse is an indication that you are taking seriously. The last thing you should be doing is taking more pills. If she wants you to hold off TTC, she should have been suggesting an alternative form of contraception. Hurrumphh! And the idea that the diabetic clinic 'may not want to see' you is just plain wrong!

Anyway, further info is available at the very comprehansive Medline Plus site (its American, but the info is still applicable and its much more comprehansive than anything produced by the NHS): www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/diabetesandpregnancy.html

For the rest of us, standard pre-conception advice is available here: www.cks.nhs.uk/pre_conception_advice_and_management#283609001

Hi Lyra I think all those of us who are SWI are in a similar head spin. Heading towards our doom propelled by some mysterious force that strikes women in their 30s.

I've had the brakes off since last September, so I should be used to it by now, but I am taking the view that the past year doesn't really count, cos I wasn't paying much attention to the logistics and probaby had loads of months where we didn't do the deed at the optimal time. This month I've established that I do actually ovulate and we did the business at exactly the right time, so assuming we are actually capable, then this month is the first time I think there is a substantial risk of conception.

I really want to know what the outcome is (hence my early testing plan for the weekend), but I'm not really sure what outcome I want it to be. I think I might be a bit relieved with a no. But I just don't know...

Cripes, so many posts. Ive been working myself into an early grave this week so havent been able to spend any time MN-ing, so apologies for the lack of support and postings from my direction. Am pretty tired right now, so sorry if type rubbish.

Im so sorry about your IVF, LC11, I have seen the amount of physical and emotional energy that goes in to each cycle, and it must be so tough. Thinking of you.

OMG, Confused, that bloody nurse! Sod her, she was clearly reading from a script in her head and paying no attention to you as an individual.

Right, lets get this clear. Am I now the only person on here who isnt TTC??????? How the hell has that happened?

Fair enough! I think, at least to a certain extent, we all are!